INTEGRA-7 SRX-Boards for Jupiter-80?

mojkarma wrote:

PauloF wrote:

And by the way... I'm on the list for an integra-7 too Mojkarma ;-)

That's fine for you.
I was thinking about getting one too. However, as a jupiter80 owner, I won't spend my money to get a jupiter again in the form of a module and over it a 12 years old xv5080 and 4 pathetic expansion slots which have to be shared between 20 expansions. All that in 2012 when other companies offer gigabytes of sound material immediately accessible.
Since I'm a live gigging musician and I rely on my own sound creations and setups, the information about user memory is essential for me. For same strange reason, Roland doesn't provide this information now. I guess it doesn't matter for museums and all those planetariums who can't wait to buy the Integra.
Further, since it's a module, I would expect a vst/au VI that let you integrate the module into your DAW. Instead, they offer you an editor reserved exclusively for iPad owners (I myself am an iPad user).
I already said it somewhere: it's highly cumbersome that a company gives you an editor reserved exclusively for Apple/Mac/OSX/iOS customers, while at the same time they give you Sonar Le, a windows exclusively sequencer as part of the package you buy. It's a mess. Even if it comes from Roland, it's too much for me.

Fully agree, but for me (for example), as a home composer and occasional gigging musician, with no money to buy an expensive JP-80, Integra-7 (seems) to offer a little of both Worlds like the Fantom (16 Part Multitimbral, FX per Part, with SRX collection), the SuperNatural new sounds, and a few other bits and pieces.
Together with a V-Synth will be a sonic dream (for me)

As a Jupiter 80 user I can't think of many reasons why 4 slots would be such a limitation. Why use SRX7 for synth waves when there is VA onboard? Why use SRX for pianos when there is supernatural onboard? Ect. IMO the inclusion of the SRX library was a consolation prize for shelling out $2000 for integra.

iPad is the logical choice for an editor...synth companies cannot maintain updates for all OS and DAW versions & I'm not crazy about installing basically unsupported freebie plugins on my system. As a musician using Jupiter in a variety of situations, I don't need to "fire up my DAW", install software on somebody else's rig or simply go without to use the Roland editor.

mojkarma wrote:

I was thinking about getting one too. However, as a jupiter80 owner, I won't spend my money to get a jupiter again in the form of a module and over it a 12 years old xv5080

I would agree that a Jupiter 80 owner will likely not have much use for this module. Its main benefit to a Jupiter 80 owner would be the old SRX sounds, and it would be a lot to pay just for that. If you're a performer happily gigging with a Jupiter 80 but there are some old SRX sounds you really lust after, I'd suggest locating a cheap old XV-2020 and the two cards you need most and velcro'ing that to your JP80!

Complaining that an Integra module it not enormously useful to a Jupiter 80 owner is like saying that the rack version of a Yamaha Motif is not terribly useful to an owner of a Motif. Well, yeah, that's kinda the point... it's mostly for someone who wants the sounds but doesn't want the board. It's just a little more complicated because, unlike the Motif racks, Roland actually built in some extras that aren't in the keyboard version. But there is so much duplication between the two that, I agree, it would not generally be cost-effective for people to consider both.

mojkarma wrote:

All that in 2012 when other companies offer gigabytes of sound material immediately accessible.

In terms of dedicated hardware instruments, there's not much that offers gigabtyes of sounds. There's that Korg Kronos ($2800+) and the Yamaha XF with a pair of gigabyte expansion cards ($3100+), both pricier than an Intergra-7, and each offering some things the others do not. Maybe the box you really want is the hybrid module/PC of a Muse Receptor. It sounds like that might be more what you're looking for than an Integra-7. Both seem like good products, it's a matter of what you need, what sounds and operation methods appeal to you.

mojkarma wrote:

Since I'm a live gigging musician and I rely on my own sound creations and setups, the information about user memory is essential for me. For same strange reason, Roland doesn't provide this information now.

This is the part of your post that I don't get. Why does being a gigging musician mean memory information is essential to you? Unless you mean you need memory to load your own custom samples, in which case I can tell you exactly how much of that memory is in a Jupiter 80 or an Integra: zero. Same amount that is in, say, a V-Piano. Or a Les Paul. That doesn't make them bad instruments, they just aren't the right tools for that purpose. But if you are looking to store your own sound creations and setups that you create with the sound sources that are already in the Jupiter or an Integra, yes, you can do that; and the limit on the number you can create is not based on how much memory is in the units, but rather how many user presets of various types they can store, and that information is indeed provided by Roland.

In terms of optimizing your own rig, if you really like the Jupiter 80 sounds but want to add gigabytes worth of sounds and custom samples, and you want your rig to consist of one keyboard and one rack module, obviously a Jupiter 80 and an Integra-7 is the wrong combo for you. I'd suggest either adding a Muse Receptor to your Jupiter 80, or selling your Jupiter 80 and combining an Integra-7 with some other keyboard that will give you different sounds and capabilities that will complement rather than duplicate what's in the Integra (including the ability to store gigabytes worth of sound), like a Kronos. If you really want the SRX sounds, this second route may be the better way to go.

PauloF wrote:

Fully agree, but for me (for example), as a home composer and occasional gigging musician, with no money to buy an expensive JP-80, Integra-7 (seems) to offer a little of both Worlds like the Fantom (16 Part Multitimbral, FX per Part, with SRX collection), the SuperNatural new sounds, and a few other bits and pieces.
Together with a V-Synth will be a sonic dream (for me)

Yes, I agree with you. In your case, an Integra may be a good choice. At half of the price of the jp80 I'm thinking about who would buy the jp80 these days at all. On the other side, I highly doubt that planetariums will spend 2000$ to play GM midi files. But that's Rolands problem and not mine.

Devnor wrote:

As a Jupiter 80 user I can't think of many reasons why 4 slots would be such a limitation. Why use SRX7 for synth waves when there is VA onboard? Why use SRX for pianos when there is supernatural onboard? Ect. IMO the inclusion of the SRX library was a consolation prize for shelling out $2000 for integra.

First and foremost, there are 4 expansion slots for both, the SRX and SN expansions. If you need that Ukulele Sound, you have to load the SN Guitar expansion and you occupied 25% of your expansion possibilities with that one patch. What else? Well, because there is VA inside the Integra doesn't mean that a user wouldn't prefer a sample based analog patch from a srx card. The same is true for the piano. Maybe the character of some of the srx based pianos fits better into the mix than the sn piano.
So, let's forget that "why would you" thing because everybody works and thinks different.
I know one thing, that is that the SN expansions contains very few instruments and they are very narrow. It's not like the srx world card where you get everything, from mariachi trumpet up to the sound of a starting rocket engine. And therefor I consider 4 expansionslots as a cumbersome choice these days.

Devnor wrote:

iPad is the logical choice for an editor

Please, explain why? (I already mentioned that I'm an ipad owner).

Devnor wrote:

synth companies cannot maintain updates for all OS and DAW versions & I'm not crazy about installing basically unsupported freebie plugins on my system.

What on earth means basically unsupported freebie plugins????????? Whould you rather pay for it and you think that it would have more value in that case? What means unsupported? And what happens if you install it on your ipad? Is it supported? Is it non-freebie?

Devnor wrote:

As a musician using Jupiter in a variety of situations, I don't need to "fire up my DAW", install software on somebody else's rig or simply go without to use the Roland editor.

We are talking about the Integra here. Its name is Integra because it integrates into your studio environment. And there you are most probably working with a software sequencer. And the Integra is not integrated into that environment at all this time. That's my point. You don't have a plug-in to integrate the Integra into your Sonar/Cubase/Logic/whatever you have. I guess that those working in a studio would need such a plugin/editor far far more than an ipad editor. It doesn't make any sense (as a lot of things on the Roland side unfortunately don't). You are working in front of Sonar or Cubase, you are fiddling with your mouse, work on controller lanes, move clips, adjust effects and then you have take the ipad in your hand to change a parameter on the Integra?
It can't be that I'm the only one seeing a problem here.
If you are a gigging musician, you don't need the editor live. And at home I guess that everybody has a computer these days. But not everybody has an iPad. Not only the ipad, you also need a camera kit for it or even some more costly options to connect the iPad with your jupiter/integra.
IMHO, Rolands approach is a complete mess. They give you Sonar which is PC only on one side and as an editor they give you on the other side an iOs only editor.
Yamaha gives you a crossplatform sequencer at least. The editor is tied to cubase but at least you can install it on both, Mac or Pc.
Korg and Kurzweil (being the smallest companies!) offer you a VST/AU (PC/Mac) compatible editor and you have the choice.
Interesting how the smallest companies give you the widest possibilities and you don't need to invest your money into more hardware to be able to edit your instrument more comfortable.

anotherscott wrote:

It's just a little more complicated because, unlike the Motif racks, Roland actually built in some extras that aren't in the keyboard version.

That was exactly my point and the reason for complain. The Integra is not the rack version to the Jupiter, as a MotifRack is to the Motif.

anotherscott wrote:

In terms of dedicated hardware instruments, there's not much that offers gigabtyes of sounds. There's that Korg Kronos ($2800+) and the Yamaha XF with a pair of gigabyte expansion cards ($3100+), both pricier than an Intergra-7

There's also the Korg Krome, offering 4 Gb of sounds, and starting at 999$!!! But my intention was not to compare prices. There is no point in comparing prices between the Integra and keyboards. Keyboards have much more hardware and some other features like sequencer or sampler. So, don't list prices because that's apples to oranges.
The point is, digital instruments, even in hardware form, are braking the 1Gb limit these days. And Roland is still stacked at 4 expansion slots. That's 4x64 Mb if the samples are uncompressed. Sorry, I think that adding a 512 Mb module instead of a 256 Mb wouldn't make a great difference to the end price of the Integra. Even if it would, I'd rather pay 2200$ for an Integra with 8 slots instead of paying 2000 for 4 slots. (Yes, I know that theres also a kind of a "rom" inside).

anotherscott wrote:

This is the part of your post that I don't get. Why does being a gigging musician mean memory information is essential to you? Unless you mean you need memory to load your own custom samples, in which case I can tell you exactly how much of that memory is in a Jupiter 80 or an Integra: zero.

Sorry, maybe I wasn't clear enough. I mean patch memory. You know, the place where you store your own sound creations or setups. Like the registration on the JP80. I'm not talking about sampling memory because those boards are not designed to load samples. A mistake IMO, but it's how it is and I don't complain about it.
It's certain that there is at least one studio set. It's not known how many studiosets you can have in one working session and sorry, I consider that information as important. I simply want/have to know how many setups I can build and store on a particular machine.
I mean, it shouldn't be a rocket science to put the same informations on web as other companies always do. Why is this important for a gigging musician? Well, in the studio even one studioset per song is enough. When you work on a new or different song, you can load a new studioset if you need. Live on stage, you don't have the time load or unload things between the songs being played. I guess that's pretty much obvious and doesn't require any further explanation.

mojkarma knows what he's talking about.

I'd like to see Roland do well, but this product is most likely going to Flop. It's feature set is so 2003. Having an iPad editor is a mess, makes NO sense. It should be an option alongside a standard PC or Mac editor. Those saying that "money will be tied up here/there", or that "Hardware is more expensive for such a concentrated effort" are out of their minds. Even having 8 slots at $1999 is a complete joke.

If there's no backward compatibility, then there was nothing stopping them from taking all of the sound roms and releasing them on one chip. It's just DATA! Chip prices are cheap. Cost provoking = having MFX on each channel or the streaming 24/96KHZ from one USB port, not for storage and memory, c'mon! And saying "now you get MFX on each channel" is going to appeal to veteran Roland users, not newbies.

If this were even a Keyboard, $1499 would be a great starting point for the Feature set (even with a Sequencer, if an Audio Sequencer, the the price of the Fantom G range).

You want an updated Roland Board in 2012, you're better off buying reFx Nexus will all of the Expansions. You will feel like you have a Super XV/Fantom b/c the sounds/layout is almost Identical.

I think the XV5080 and Fantom XR remain Roland's best RACKS, and while I haven't used the Fantom G, it looks like the Rolls Royce of Roland Keyboards.

The Integra is what is wrong with Roland today.

mojkarma wrote:

I highly doubt that planetariums will spend 2000$ to play GM midi files.

Their marketing to "Museums, Art Galleries, and Planetariums" is based on the unit's ability to place sounds in a 3D space, not its GM compatibility.

mojkarma wrote:

anotherscott wrote:

It's just a little more complicated because, unlike the Motif racks, Roland actually built in some extras that aren't in the keyboard version.

That was exactly my point and the reason for complain. The Integra is not the rack version to the Jupiter, as a MotifRack is to the Motif.

The complaint then is that they made the Intega-7 too good? ;-) I imagine an engineer saying something like, "Hey, you know that Jupiter-based rack we're working on? The way the architecture is designed, we could pretty easily add the ability to load all the old SRX sounds, without adding too much to the cost." But then instead of "great, let's do that," you'd rather the answer were "no, let's leave that out... it's a rack version of the Jupiter soundset, and we don't want people complaining that we gave them something extra." Hmmph! Yamaha did the opposite, they left some things OUT of the Motif-based rack. If the feature set of a rack and keyboard are not identical, I don't see why it has to be the rack version that lags. (BTW, the Fantom XR Rack held more SRX cards than the Fantom X keyboard!)

I suspect that there may be a new Jupiter 80 model within a year, that will add the ability to load SRX sounds, and the rack's capabilities will then better line up with the keyboard. But the rack happens to be available first. I'm glad they didn't "cripple" it to make it match the current Jupiter. And if they had, a year from now, if they do come out with an SRX-enhanced Jupiter 80, you could have the opposite complaint, that the rack doesn't offer what the keyboard does. If everything doesn't come out at the same time, it is likely that each is going to have the benefit of some advancements since the earlier incarnation.

Of course, if all someone wants is a rack version of the Jupiter sounds, they can buy the Integra, and ignore the SRX functions entirely. Compared to the Jupiter, any SRX capability is a bonus, so the inability to load more than 4 is, to me, a matter of whether you see the cup as half empty or half full.

mojkarma wrote:

There's also the Korg Krome, offering 4 Gb of sounds

Ah yes, I forgot about that new one! I believe it's 3.8 gigs: 2.8 gb piano, 600 mb of EPs, about 150 mb drums and 256 mb for everything else. Whether its 2.8 gb sampled piano is better than Roland's modeled approach is open to debate, though. I think that's what makes it hard to compare memory specs. Yes, you could compare the 256 mb "other" Kronos space to the 256 mb available to 4 SRX card's worth of sounds, those all use the same kind of sample-based sound generation. But how many gigabytes would all the SuperNATURAL acoustic instruments take up if they were strictly sampled instead of modeled? That's not known, and it doesn't matter. The quality of the sound is more important than how many megabytes of data it takes, so it's a matter of whether or not these sounds work for you.

So I think there is an apples-and-oranges comparison, in that asking how much memory is in a Jupiter 80 would be almost like asking what the size of the gas tank is in an electric car. And I think what sometimes gets lost is that, while the Integra-7 may only have 256 mb of available memory for SRX sounds, it has the entire bank of "x megabytes" worth of Jupiter 80 sounds available before you use the first megabyte of that memory. So it may have more sonic content in it than a multi-gigabyte Krome, even though it would not look that way of measured mb to mb.

mojkarma wrote:

I think that adding a 512 Mb module instead of a 256 Mb wouldn't make a great difference to the end price of the Integra. Even if it would, I'd rather pay 2200$ for an Integra with 8 slots instead of paying 2000 for 4 slots.

And then someone else would complain that 8 slots isn't enough, since there are 20 slots worth of possible data that could be loaded in. ;-) But we don't each get to have these custom made to our specs, they had to pick something... and four was probably not just cheapest, but also matched up with many earlier SRX-compatible units, where they may not have heard many complaings that 4 slots wasn't enough, and those units didn't even have all the SN capabilities.

If indeed the limitation is as simple as you say (i.e. RAM, rather than anything architectural), the best solution would have been to use some kind of user accessible memory slot, so the user could decide to put more RAM in... you could put it enough for 8, someone else could put in enough for more, others could leave it as is if 4 is enough for them, and everyone pays only for what they want. That would have been ideal.

Though I also think it's presumptuous of us to assume that it's simply a matter of RAM. Maybe that portion of the unit is based on a repurposing of the XV-5080 architecture, and that might have been "hard wired" to only recognize 4 slots. So re-engineering to exceed that limitation might have been time consuming and expensive, for (from their perspective) the questionable goal of providing more simultaneous slots. We just don't really know. Regardless of the reason, though, this is what we have... it will serve some people's purposes, and won't serve others. And who knows, maybe an "8 slot" Integra will appear a year or two from now.

mojkarma wrote:

Sorry, maybe I wasn't clear enough. I mean patch memory.

Ah, I understand now. I assume that information will be in the manual, and we will soon all know how many user patches can be stored, and what ability it may have to load different sets of user patches in and out,

Whilst I see the various points, I cannot agree that there will be another JP-80 released in a year. No way.

The Integra and JP-80 are two different beasts - like Kronos is to Krome. Some similarities yes, but ultimately two different approaches, and the Integra and JP-80 are going to evolve differently.

The JP-80 is only at the start of Roland's plans for it, I think. There's more to come...

cello wrote:

Whilst I see the various points, I cannot agree that there will be another JP-80 released in a year. No way.

The Integra and JP-80 are two different beasts - like Kronos is to Krome. Some similarities yes, but ultimately two different approaches, and the Integra and JP-80 are going to evolve differently.

The JP-80 is only at the start of Roland's plans for it, I think. There's more to come...

I couldn't agree more ..
Roland has bet the farm on the ju-80 and done a great job getting it to the market
maybe a little too soon, but ver 2.0 is just the beginning .
Just look at all the Kronos owners that feel as their value has been diminished
by the "x" factor.
The biggest problem Roland has is the JU-80 is a "program your own" synth.
Just like we did in the old days .Forces you to learn the keyboard not the other way around ..
when i get the integra I'll be doing the same ..

Zardoz505 -- your Avitar is riot, very, very clever!!

As a Fantom G owner, I am seriously considering the Integra 7. Having the FG-8 that cannot or does not leave the studio, the I7 could be my JP-80 with a MIDI controller. A light weight package for on-the-go. Whenever, GC has a 15% deal going, it maybe a better choice for me. Keep the comments coming and I am looking forward to seeing the manuals for a better understanding of how and what you get with the I7 versus the JP_80.

I was at a local area store yesterday and the Roland representative said that the forthcoming Legacy Collection is a soundest for the JP-80/50 not an add-on hardware module. I still like the capabilities and sounds of the JP-80; the Roland rep was very helpful in demonstrating some of it's features that I have only read about. Hopefully, the Legacy Collection will be an addition compatible with the Integra 7.

mojkarma wrote:

If you need that Ukulele Sound, you have to load the SN Guitar expansion and you occupied 25% of your expansion possibilities with that one patch.

Are you sure that new uke sound isn't in the stock rom set that does not require using any slots?

I know, really, that was just an example. But considering all the sounds that are in the thing (including, most likely, all the Jupiter 80 sounds, before you even use up one of the four slots), it's not like there aren't plenty of sounds to choose from. That is, even with "only" 4 slots loaded, you have more sounds to choose from than any Jupiter 80 owner (and there are plenty of happy Jupiter owners, along with the unhappy ones we hear from ;-) )and, in fact, more sounds to choose from than probably most other keyboards/modules you can buy.

And along those lines...

mojkarma wrote:

I know one thing, that is that the SN expansions contains very few instruments and they are very narrow. It's not like the srx world card where you get everything, from mariachi trumpet up to the sound of a starting rocket engine.

But you can in fact load that SRX world card with "everything" and still have all the stock SN sounds available and still have 3 slots to spare!

There's also the Korg Krome, offering 4 Gb of sounds.

A bigger number doesn't mean it's better. The Krome is an M50 plus the German Grand, EP & ambient drums of the Kronos. To me, the Kronos piano sounds plastic and lifeless because it lacks sympathetic resonance. The Kronos EPs sound good, but due to the Krome's limited effect section, I don't think the Krome EPs would sound that good.

Chrisk-K wrote:

There's also the Korg Krome, offering 4 Gb of sounds.

A bigger number doesn't mean it's better. The Krome is an M50 plus the German Grand, EP & ambient drums of the Kronos. To me, the Kronos piano sounds plastic and lifeless because it lacks sympathetic resonance. The Kronos EPs sound good, but due to the Krome's limited effect section, I don't think the Krome EPs would sound that good.

I think the Kronsos piano is good but not great... but I don't think the issue is one of sympathetic resonance.

As for the EPs, Krome does not have the EP modeling engine of the Kronos. Instead it appears to have sampled versions of some of the Kronos' modeled EPs.

I'd almost be willing to bet that they will increase the available expansion slots in an update.... it's probably already capable...

what you think?

apex wrote:

I'd almost be willing to bet that they will increase the available expansion slots in an update.... it's probably already capable...

what you think?

Maybe, but only if The hardware plataform supports it, which I doubt...