Romantic Strings... Achievable?

Things always sound better to me after a couple of beers.

I'm not sure what you mean by "Romantic" strings. "Romance" is generally a genre of music and literature and has more to do with concept than actual instrumentation. I don't think that any particular patch could be considered "romantic," but rather how you play it and the structure of your composition that could be considered romantic.

Like Baroque for example. What the heck Baroque really is I haven't a clue. Bach did it, and it has harpsichords in it, if that's any help.

If you're using "romance" to mean the warm smooshy feeling girls get when they read Jane Eyre novels(and they don't read them anymore), then you're hanging out in the wrong clubs, boppo.

I'll add that Barber could have done Adagio using the SRX04 and nobody would have been able to tell the difference. But that's me saying that.

For reference:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romantic_%28music%29

Hi.

Thanks for your reply. Appreciated.

By way of clarification...

The link you gave is very relevant.

Music of the Baroque Period (1600-1750) is nowadays, rightly or wrongly, generally played with less vibrato or 'straighter' than music of some later periods such as the Romantic (1815-1910).

Some later orchestras were also characterised by larger size than would be the case earlier. These large string sections playing with vibrato generated a different sound which I can only describe as more 'lush' or 'full'.

Each sound was suited to its own type of music. The counterpoint of Bach's music needed a straight sound to illuminate the complex counterpoint going on in the score. Whereas the sustained chords and soaring melodies of some Romantic music needed a fuller sound richer for example in vibrato.

So take the strings in Nat King Cole's Stardust for example...
Romantic, not Baroque.

I'm wanting to produce that sound for the musicals I do, using my X, which would mean I could use it much more of the time, rather than resorting to another keyboard.

I understand that the Fantom's powerful patch editing resources are there to be used. And from first reading, it seems Art's Tweakbook opens up a whole load of useful techniques for doing just that.

But in the meantime glad to hear anyone's thoughts on this.

Cheers.

Well, you certainly cleared that up. In terms of genre vs. "mood or feeling," you're talking about the genre. I'm familiar with western music but I do not consider myself an expert on it. Sort of a casual fan. I took a college course on the history of western music. So I'm not a complete noob.

I have 04 and 06. Rolands SRX demo does give you an idea of a selection of patches on each board, but there really is quite an impressive diversity.

Take a look at Roland's demo and look at the patch list. If you have a question about anything that's not "demo-ed" let me know and at worst I could explain it or at best I could put up an audio demo of the patch on my cat's website. (Yes. My cat has a website.) Or I could even do a Youtube video demo on my cat's youtube account(he has one of them too--what a cat, eh?)

I bought both boards by virtue of Roland's demos and I was not disappointed. Some of the sounds that you can't audition on the demos are better than the sounds you can audition. So the board is actually better than the demo in both instances.

There are some cheezey sounds, but they are few and far between. The oboes, clarinets, flutes, and quite a bit of the brass on the 06 are drop dead gorgeous in my opinion.

Yup.

I too have both 04 and 06.

I agree that some of the sounds are great.

My one problem is in not liking the strings as they are for the work I do. Not that there's anything wrong with them. It's a case of horses for courses.

So guess I'll just get stuck in to the Tweakbook and see what I can come up with.

Cheers.

>But before I get stuck in to the book, I thought I'd try cheating and ask if anyone has thoughts on how to achieve a lush string sound that just melts you when you hear it, you know, as if 100 strings were acompanying Nat King Cole rather than playing Bach.<

Have you tried using chorus, delay, and reverb FX to fatten the sound? And then do it again with a slight detuning. And again... And again...

And that's just for the first violins. Repeat for second violins, violas, cellos, basses and you will get there.

Thanks Richard,

That makes sense. Will try it out.

Cheers.

I think he means like '50s strings ... big, syrupy but with a kind of sheen to it ... I think he said it best when he said something backing up Nat King Cole (or maybe a little like the strings on Patsy Cline's "Sweet Dreams." ... I'd agree, SRX-6 does not have that kind of sound ...

50's strings? No, we're not talking about the strings from the 50's, we're talking about sonic quality from the 50's. And then it's back to the analog vs. digital argument. Magnetic tape had a particular effect upon the sound that some people consider pleasing because of nostalgia. Frankly, it's sort of an anomoly, like somebody who reminisces fondly about stale bread because it's all they ate when they were under 20. Analog is basically crap. Call it warmer if you want but it's really only a sonic distortion that you'd grown accustomed to. It's my opinion that digital audio is more virtual than analog audio. So then, I'll offer that "romantic" strings in context with analog sound processing is a sonic mirage that people want to visit again and again. But it's never better than the real thing.
Hate me if you want for saying this, but analog sound processing is a distortion of the virtual sound. Digital processing does not distort the sound to anywhere near the same degree. You only like analog because you grew up with it.
So if by "romantic" you mean analog(and any reference to 50's recording is a reference to analog), then I would buy a cassette tape 4 track like the Tascam 424 I used to have(shudder) and knock yourself out. Literally. Because analog sinks headbanging to a whole new level.

... This is an interesting point that EYW makes. I did think at some point that the reasons the strings recorded during that era did sound different from the digital versions that make up SRX-04/06 were:

1. Real string arrangements playing intricately arranged pieces, rather than all the same (you know varying levels of vibrato, tremolo etc. etc.)
2. The hardware used to mix them all in (all analog).
3. The medium (tape) used to record them. Im sure there was a natural warble (very low frequency) due to the mechanicals used to control tape speed at that time along with the magnetic charateristics of tape as well.

Not saying that I dont love the SRX versions (Im a realist), I use them regardless, and am willing to move on when I cannot get close to the original. But I did wonder about the sonic character that they possess.

I have given up my search for the strings of years long gone by I now arrange using the sounds available to me, and audiences do love them!!

But interesting topic nevertheless ...

Manish

Not sure about this myself. If you listen to classical recordings from that era there is not a lot of difference to the orchestra's recordings of today. I think its more of what the producer wanted to achieve.

I think there was a lot of technique involved(but I dont know what the technique is!)

I think you may have to go down the sampling route to achieve some of these sounds however.

You could try layering some strings using tremelo, chorus even rotary effects and then resampling and building up this way.

I sometimes record a strings track and then copy it to several other tracks and transpose each track so track 2 would be +5, track 3 would be +12, track 4 -12 etc, using say the violin patch. Then I would resample it and repeat ad nauseum.

This sometimes gives you great sounds sometime it sounds awful but its good fun trying. A lot of time you come out with something that sounds great but not really what you set out to do though.

Hi Diametro,

Thank you for your description...

'big, syrupy with a kind of sheen to it'.

Absolutely right!... another word I might use is 'smooth'.

And thanks for your confirmation that that sort of sound doesn't exist on SRX 6.

In fact to complete the picture, to get the strings how I want them would be the icing on the cake. I think the pizzicatos, solo strings sounds and full orchestra sounds on SRX 4 & 6 are superb. e.g. roll and klang and Finale just blow me away. Huge grin when I use them...Wakes the audience up as well!

It's just the string section ones I don't like.

EYW You may well have a point regarding analog/digital.
Nevertheless, what's relevant for me is the fact is I've got these sounds on another (digital) keyboard (the Tyros 2) and I wish I had them on my Fantom, cos I like playing my Fantom more!

My hunch is I'm not going to get there by tweaking, so thanks rogerp1 for your helpful suggestions. May well try to sample from one keyboard to the other.

But if that doesn't work, given the many superb sounds on my X + its capabilities, I've got lots to smile about, even if I do choose to use another keyboard for some sounds.

Lots of good syrupy strings on my GeForce VSM (Virtual String Machine) soft-synth I have just started playing with! Really brings back some memorable sounds. Maybe worth a look too, for mixing in with your Fantom stock?

Don't know if you're still around, but if you want lush strings, you can try a few things.

Add 6db low pass filter to your string elements, and close down cutoff until you're happy with the sound. This reduces the high frequency partials which will smooth the strings.

You might also benefit from adding a small delay, something under 20ms per channel, which naturally thickens your sound.

If this is not the sound you're looking for, then open up the filter 10% or more, and try adding a sine wave behind the strings. If you have room for 2 sine elements, detune them by +- 3db for a slow chorus effect.

If you are looking for more legato, increase the VCA attack values to taste. Adding a little to the VCA release will also help. Settings here are dependent on the music's tempo and articulation. You don't want to increase attack and release to play marcato strings, for example.

A little reverb is OK, but go lightly. You want realism for classical instruments, not electronic effects. LRC Delay can do a better job of simulating the reverberant characteristics of a concert hall and won't muddy your patch tails like an inline reverb.

Finally, don't forget to use appropriate EQ. To brighten strings, add EQ above 5KHz. For rich cellos and basses, roll off the bass below 50Hz -- it's just rumble down there and removing this element of sound helps bring out the lower tones.

Experiment with these ideas -- use your ears and you'll get your strings.

I've just made up a performance (using some tweaked strings from the standard ROM, no SRX cards involved) which I called "Strings Menu". I tried to program it to be perfourmable - velocity layers and stuff - but I still think there might be some tweaking to be done regarding the velocity bias (I simply used split zones where using such overlapping zones might bring a better result) but I'm not too experienced with this. While I tried to replicate the "classic" sound of a string orchestra, it may very well be what you're looking for (or close to it )
Also not happy with the stock choir sounds - I made another performance "Choir Menu". But this one is no bragging about, its only merit is that it sounds (IMHO) better than the stock sounds. If I can upload them here I'd be happy to share them (along with the user patches)!