A Clue to the Next Workstation.

I'd speculate it's all possible with current Fantoms - it might just need "unlocking" in a firmware. Look at the Juno-G - the same chipset (albeit with less PCM rom but still) yet less features. SonicCell uses (most probably) the same WX chip but it might have different peripherals.

Being conservative I'd expect just more PCM, more I/O options, perhaps improved load/save performance and few tweaks in GUI and sequencer.

MotifXS and KorgM3 although being a fine machines just disappoints (perhaps except Karma in M3) because they aren't that much improved when comparing to predecessors.

There is no need to offer anything much better by Roland frankly...

The Fantom as a hardware platform is 80% untapped.
think about it you have the following..

Sampler

synth

drum machine

song Sequencer

Pattern sequencer (100 patterns)

Pads

keys

USB

Storage

all with Great potential..

Until you look at the software thats running..

1) Pattern sequencer should be independent (just like ablerton)
2) Sampler should be accessible at all times and not locked out when playing or recording midi.
3) Sampler should not stop the sequencer when you press stop in sampler.
4) rps patterns should not stop when you scroll up or down in the pattern sequencer
5) rps patterns should not all stop when switching between pattern mode and song mode
And lets not mention the crap file system.
6) samples should not always be one shot by default
you should be able to set them to be all FWD by default.

all of this is possible and much more with a software update
but guess who will not do this..

We will ultimately see the fantom untapped in favor of more gear and more money grabbing just to get a software update.
This is why i have stopped thinking about the next workstation and are dedicated to separate independent gear to do the individual tasks, as they can be customized to do what you want when you want and swapped and change to suit the times and your needs without having the change your whole workstation and having to go though another learning curve and dealing with new bugs.

In essence i suppose, the workstation is the poor mans studio.
At some point you have to expand and leave it behind.

all of this is possible and much more with a software update
but guess who will not do this..

And it's sad... some very simple tweaks could improve work flow immensely.

n essence i suppose, the workstation is the poor mans studio.
At some point you have to expand and leave it behind.

Or we can say the workstation is rich man writing tool.

There isn't nothing stopping anyone using say Fantom to make whole productions. Of course if there arise a need of more inputs, more memory or anything more then it stops being sufficient. How hard technically it'd be to provide such capability in a workstation? Easy but how it'd fit to company business?
Not to well imho...

It would make very good business sense if you consider the following..

Software development/improvement is more cost effective than hardware development.
Pushing out a new version of the software with massive improvements would reap a larger profit margin/percentage than hardware development and marketing.

Software development you already know your market and customer base because of recorded sales, so you already know how many you will sell.

With hardware you have invested a lot more money in development marketing in the hope of selling as many as you can but don't know how many will sell or what your market base will ultimately be.

If it sells (and Fantom does?) then Roland doesn't have to improve anything even if it'd be just one simple firmware update away.

Look at the competition - XS is considered by many as not that better than ES (it has actually a degraded sequencer from ES). M3 has similar polyphony and effect instances as Triton.

Roland sells things beside Fantoms too. If its keyboard workstation would be too good it could eat into sales of other units (MV, VS, V-Synth, arrangers) which is something Roland has to avoid.

It really comes down to creativity. Timbaland uses an old board(i forget which one) and still bangs out hits because he knows that board inside out and is comfortable with it thus lending more to his creative side. The Fantom is a good board to get comfortable with because of what it can do.

Hey Radek, are you sure you know what you are talking about? XS is not that much improved compared to ES? You must have a truly unusual way of looking at things...

Hey Radek, are you sure you know what you are talking about? XS is not that much improved compared to ES? You must have a truly unusual way of looking at things...

Let see - the same polyphony, the same number of insert effect instances, worse sequencer (step recording was removed), lack of ability to use PLG boards, the same sample length limit like in ES.

Some more effect types were added, load/save performance improved, four more knobs and faders added. XS has multiple arps with huge library of patterns.

But functionally and soundwise XS isn't that much big step forward. In some things it's actually worse than ES (PLG boards).

Actually I have MotifES rack and I was an participant in Motifator forums. IMHO I can know what I'm talking about here.

except that your missing a few BIG points, new 8 element architecture, VCM effects and completely redesigned DSP giving a very clear and punchy sound. The ES to me always sounded a bit nasal, but not any more. The XS is very musical.

Yes step sequencer has been removed, but I've never used one anyway, and no PLG boards, which are out of date and/were poorly integrated making them big hassle to use properly. BUT, the addition of polyphony of certain boards was welcome, even though you shoudn't have to pay more to get a decent piano on board. All manufacturers have been poor at this. The XS is the first to have a decent piano out of the box. But, even though you think you may miss additional forms of synthesis, the XS covers all the bases well.

To me the Korg M3 is the least appealing update, because karma is not really updated (only wave seqeuncing within a module is added), effects are the same as Triton, DSP has been enhanced so it does sound better than Triton, but fundamentally it's a cut down ROM of the Oasys stuffed in a more ugly Triton chassis.

The biggest winge I have is the inflation these boards have suffered, both korg and Yam have gone up by about 15% -20% and RRP of XS8 or M3 88 at £2500-£2600 is taking the mickey. £1700 - £1800 should be the value IMHO.

You simply can't take a punt on buying one of these machines without knowing everything otherwise you've made an expensive mistake. £1700-£1800RRP for both 61 key models - ummm. I took a huge loss on selling my fantom X8 - never again.

Steve

PLG boards aren't outdated sound wise. They might be a hassle to use then we can say a guitar can be too. I'm not denying XS isn't good but it's not so big improvement - there were numerous posts even in Motifator where people were expressing disappointed.
(but it's matter of a personal opinion so...)
I will not get XS in a keyboard form - perhaps in a rack if one will show eventually.
People really have bigger expectation especially after jump to ES from first Motif. ES has specs being numerous times bigger in almost everything. It's not so when comparing XS with ES.

8 elemental voices will be constrained by not improved polyphony. And if it's just for extra articulation type of stuff then why only 8? A modern PCM synth (and sampler) shouldn't have such stupid limitations.

"PLG boards aren't outdated sound wise." - I think they are. Just the same as Korg's MOSS board, they all sound 1990's - that's not necessarily a bad thing, a decent analogue synth will never date the same.

"I will not get XS in a keyboard form - perhaps in a rack if one will show eventually.
People really have bigger expectation especially after jump to ES from first Motif. ES has specs being numerous times bigger in almost everything. It's not so when comparing XS with ES. "

Probably down to the increased cost in buying the thing in the first place, you have to make the decision that's right for you. You certainly can't take a punt if your not sure or you don't think it offers enough. Value for money over what you have already is the point.

"8 elemental voices will be constrained by not improved polyphony. And if it's just for extra articulation type of stuff then why only 8? A modern PCM synth (and sampler) shouldn't have such stupid limitations."

It's very unlikely you'll have all eight elements sounding simultaneously, unless you're building a monster lead sound or complex organ. So the ability to layer or switch is great, and it adds greatly to dynamics.

Any more than eight, and i think polyphony would have to double to 256 notes. Again, it's a cost related issue. The Oasys has about 172 notes running off a 3GHz? P4, so it must be taking some processing power and it still only has four layers - they've just caught up where Roland and Yam were at the end of the last millenium!

Sure it's all possible but at a cost, just look at the Oasys, an overpriced wrong concept at the wrong time. I hope Roland don't try the mega but yet still unbelivably compromised all in one workstation. Nah, they won't, they're the tightest buggers out of all of them!

Steve

Any more than eight, and i think polyphony would have to double to 256 notes. Again, it's a cost related issue. The Oasys has about 172 notes running off a 3GHz? P4, so it must be taking some processing power and it still only has four layers - they've just caught up where Roland and Yam were at the end of the last millenium!

Korg could easily put way faster CPU than P4 in Oasys without an extra costs at all. But they would have a marketing disaster - Oasys is just custom software with custom control surface. Current owners of Oasys would demand to upgrade what is basically a PC motherboard and is inherently cheap. So Korg is stuck - I wonder for how long they will stick with that old (and under performing to C2D) P4 chip?

But it doesn't make concept of Oasys invalid IMHO. It's just a very tricky thing business wise...

I'd never even consider an OASYS until it surpasses 16 MIDI tracks ...

yeah, the Oasys 'cos its gone the PC route, looks well outdated already with quad core processors now the norm for performance PC's.

I think the concept, as in the all in one tries to do everything, is wrong 'cos it ends up being a compromise on vital components. You'd still need a decent audio interface and 'puter set up to do proper recording. It's a glorified rompler with exactly the same fundamental specs as every other workstation, the only real difference being it's capable of running other Korg software synths - not worth £5500. I'd consider one if it were under £3K.

Steve