X6...not impressed with the sound

Well i already stated that skipback doesn't make a difference to the way i work.Either i like a take or i don't,i don't need skip back in the background constantly saying "here you are sir,what about this,how about this one,or are you sure you didn't like that last chord phrase!well it's here just in case sir!" this is all silly stuff to me!
Autotempo match is catered for in the slicing feature of the Mo which assigns each slice a midi note which allows that loop to be automatically sped up or slowed down with the main tempo,any non drum loop material can quickly be stretched and assigned a tempo.I operate at 140bpm constantly anyway. The fantoms Autochop is also catered for in the timeslice feature,in fact Autochop is a copy of Mo's timeslice originally taken from the RS7000.I'm not sure about the Auto assign feature but the built in pads also don't make a difference to my ability to get a groove happening.RPS is a joke and is just a memory bank for prerecorded phrases which can't even be added to the sequencer for playback.D Beam hasen't done anything useful for me,the color screen makes absolutely no difference to the music.The pitch/mod stick is a pain in the arse and you have to strain to keep a steady hand when you want Mod or Pitch exclusively(much better having seperate sticks i think).The actual keyboard means nothing to me because all the brands have a competent feel on 61note versions.I never use Micro edit but i do conceed that the sequencer on FantomX is very nice,but it's not as though you couldn't get everything done on the Mo anyway.
I haven't said anything at Motifator,like, the Mo is the ducks nuts or whatever.i'm simply stating to you that theMoES does seem to have the extra things that really count, despite the fact that neither have loopcrossfade or Variphrase,but again i say,Roland had Variphrase 5 years ago so why the hell it wasn't incorporated into their top of the line workstation i'll never know.
If i was the CEO at Roland then that would have been a no brainer. " Those techno heads on the ground need our Variphrase John! not to mention that we're competing with the onslaught from the computer world and need to beef up the Fantom to maintain competitiveness! Get on it will ya! oh and while your there,get that Reverb up to Pro level,and also get hold of some hardarse producer in UK or Belgium and get that waverom up to scratch immediately!"

Have to agree with you about the pitch bend and the D beam.

Love the big colour screen (I'm getting old and very easy on the eyes)

And I do like the skip back sampler for figuring out a short ection of a song in a wave file. I just play it, hit skip back, truncate it, and then preview it and play it until my tired brain works it out. Yes I used to do it with laptop, CD player, tape player etc.... but it is amazing to have it right at my finger tips. Plus I often play the Ultimate piano patch (perfect for my lingering melancholy made up ramblings) and play something really cool but not sure what I did. Thats when I skip back and archive it for later song use.

Now I've tinkered on pianos since a very young age and for me that is a cool feature. But I can understand where you are coming from as a dance producer. Just my 2 bobs worth.

I used to have a really good ear but I think too much loud music over the years has made it harder for me.

MBOT, you said...
...you "operate at 140bpm constantly"
..."skipback doesn't make a difference to the way you work"
..."D Beam hasen't done anything useful for you"
..."the color screen makes absolutely no difference to the music"

Seems that you are maybe too specialized for such a universal workstation like the Fantom? Maybe the Fantom seems to be the wrong device for you, if you do not need all the little features (that for many others are quite helpful).

But then again, you as "the CEO at Roland", would pack the Fantom with many more features than it already offers...?

I have no advice for you, no help, no comfort, and no big experience with the Fantom, since I am still in my stage of gathering more information about the Fantom. And, although I have not finished yet, I am pretty much sure that it will be a Fantom, that will suit my needs. But that's just me.

Anyway, to follow this thread is pretty amusing as it offers a very big slice of yummy stand-up comedy with a thick spread of passion on top, on both sides.

shrewd-salut!
SRUT, BUT...

[edit typo]

Which one to choose? Hmmm, tricky.

Whatever you think you will find useful will probably be useless to you.

Whatever you don't think is important will become the single defining feature which is essential to your music.

You just cannot know what you will value before you purchase. Do the right thing for the synthesizer industry and buy a Fantom with SRX boards, a Triton with MOSS board and a MotifES with plugin boards.

Than you will know which workstation is right for you. or at least you will have fun trying...

B

M-Bot, You miss my point. I'm saying your argument, your line of thinking is skewed. You hold Roland to a higher standard than Yamaha. You complain about all things that are missing from Roland, and Praise a machine that has none of the things you complain about(other than those Belgian Waveforms??)

My point, is that it is easier to add Sounds, than it is to add features like the Audio Tracks, Skip Back Sampling, MicroEdit, D beam, and the Roland Feel. Those are selling points for the FantomX, none of which you like, or care for. Seems, that all you really needed was something with Variphrase, and some hot sounds. Maybe you should get a V-Synth, or V-Synth XT instead of the Mo.........Doesn't sound like you're going to be happy with it either.




Just trying to help.


FantomS
AW4416
Now all I need is talent.
Anyone selling any talent??
member # 55
registered 21 May 2003

tundrkys98@yahoo.com Yahoo messenger: tundrkys98

The large majority of so called features that Roland offer are mainly pointless gimmicks,Yeah!? but the Variphrase that isn't pointless has not been included(purely a transfer of software code) So whose thinking is really skewed!
I'm expecting Roland to incorporate a technology that already exsists in their music arsenal, and if yamaha had it, i would expect the same.In other words Roland is holding out on us which i'm telling you, is and was a bad mistake.
Now cosidering that neither have loopcrossfade or Variphrase then it's logical to compare the things they do have (skewed thinking?um yeah right!).
Now considering that most of Rolands features are gimmicks and that the rest of what they do have is not up to pro standards (oh i forgot,it's got a pro color screen)i actually prefered the monotone of the FantomS to tell you the truth. Then this all leaves me in a position to highlight the MotifES advantages.oh and the auto assign feature is actually part of the Mo sampling setup just to let you know.
NOW!
-Three band Eq on every channel: musically relevant and very very handy
-More flexible and Pro sounding reverb: musically priceless
-Approx 1900 waveforms: not having to resort to multiple presets from the same waveform to fill out a big psuedo preset list( all those indian Sitar's and piano variations, what a useful bunch of presets that lot is,how lovely)
-A five band master EQ in addition to the multipresssor: important for gaining control of the mix and tailoring the final sound
-16 simultaneous high end effects in addition to the Global reverb and chorus(in fact each of those effects can be a double effect): what can i say, bloody marvellous should suffice
- Better and inspiring presets and drumkits: well that speaks for itself(or hang on,maybe tweaking would make them even better again,Whoa!)
-Ribbon controller for squelching pulsating type movement in applicable presets: musically very relevant for dance trance techno and house heads
-the option to plug in a great sounding Virtual Analog board: fucken brilliant

I'd pretty much say that these blow the Fantoms fairy dust away, and certainly make up for not having Variphrase, esspecially considering that it's not one of yamaha's current technologies but i'm sure if they had it then it would have been in there,Wait scratch that! false expectations i'm being darn unfair...
So considering these musically RELEVANT and HIGHER QUALITY implementations from Yamaha,then it must not be unfair for me to have expected Roland to lift their game in the (musically relevant) feature for feature stakes,not to mention putting in some necessary shit called Variphrase to compete with other brands and SUPPORT the buyers of the Fantom with the best arsenal and (here it goes again)musically relevant features.
Opps hang on,i think theres some skewed thinking going on here,my arguement just doesn't hold any weight.
D beam- mod/pitch combo - color screen- and RPS unable to be used in a sequence::: God bless them over there at Roland,only so they might get some brains but,and stop expecting us to buy a Fantom AND a Vsynth to get things happening

Yawn. . . . . . . . . . . .

M BOT,

You are quite verbose for for someone whose comments, when reduced to their lowest common denominator, basically say the same thing (over and over and over. . ).

Being no one here (but you) is responsible for your choice of purchases; and no one here works for or can singularly influence Roland Corp's engineering and marketing decisions. . . .

In TWO sentences or less:
(cause it's about time to focus, don't you think?)


Other than pointless (in the given context)venting ,
What IS your point. ? .

Bassman

M-Bot
Well I guess if Roland needs pulled in line that is entirely your opinion.

Can I suggest Yamaha need pulled in line as well.
I like Yahama sounds but they have yet to make a decent keyboard to play them on. Their action is almost double that of a standard grand piano.(proven in scientific tests) Steinway Grand about 40 weight and Yamaha about 70weight.
So maybe the 2 could get their heads together and Roland could give them some tips on how to build a weighted action keyboard.

I have played on pianos for over 35 years and can honestly say Roland leads the pack!!!!

Just my 2 bobs worth.

Variphrase again... i'd suggest you to read topic
title - "not impressed with the SOUND" , varyphrase
has nothing to do with the "sound" quality as such,
but you're ranting over and over again against this
feature lacking on the fantoms - i'd suggest you
to clear your mind about what "sound" quality means.
Besides, buy a V-SYNTH if VP is that all you need to
do your music.

M BOT:

From what i can see in the roland range
roland seem to have a tight philosophy on how they produce new products.

it goes like this..

we want to keep selling our old gear, so if where going to give you features from our old stock we will f**k them up so there not quite the same so you will have to buy our old stock.

Case in point..
the v-synth has arp that you can record in realtime

the fantom has an arp but you cannot

v-synth has realtime osicators to use to create sounds.

the fantome HAS an realtime osiclator but cannot! be used to create real sounds

So roland will give you what you had, but not in the same way you had it....
because if they did, they would not be able to keep selling there old gear.

Results not Excuses
MSN: fantom01@hotmail.com

Get optimised: Rev 9.1




QuinnX universal tranlator below:-
(lets not be misunderstood)

!!!!!! Emphasis not anger
!!?? Confusion or Stupidity
ABC are you getting the point
&*$% Anger (but rarely seen)


Fantom-X6 with Audio Track Expansion (OS 2.0)
Windows 2000
Intel P4 2g
512mb

M-bot, did you learn all this stuff after you bought your FantomX or before??

Heck your little sales pitch has got me wanting a Mo.........no......I already said I'll be adding a MoEX Rack soon....

Can you post me a picture of your Fantom??


FantomS
AW4416
Now all I need is talent.
Anyone selling any talent??
member # 55
registered 21 May 2003

tundrkys98@yahoo.com Yahoo messenger: tundrkys98

Well i think i'm tired of seeing the same old shit,year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year,so i think that deserves a bit of post after post after post after post after post after post after post after post after post of the same old shit,that way it keeps the topic at the top of the list and INCREASES THE CHANCES of someone of significance at Roland stumbling across the posts and getting the message through their thick skulls at head office.
If you guys don't want Roland to see their obvious flaws then i'm happy to take the heat and complain about this total debarcle in it's third revision that still hasen't been accepted by the majority of pro's except for those that get them for free because of endorsement agreements.
My point is pretty clear i would have thought Bassman! i guess thats why you came out of the woodwork,cause it finally hit a little to close to home.
Quinnx knows the go as well.
and for da-man i would suggest going over to yamaha forums and let them have it because those 8 octave weighted versions are friggen exspensive.
We just switched tracks for a while Magus,don't get your knickers in a twist,anyone is welcome to get back on topic at anytime,it's a free world.
and no i can't post a picture thunderkyss cause i wouldn't know how to use a computer for posting pictures and shit like that, and i don't have a digital camera.But trust me,if i had the $$ to throw around then i'd hire a plane and drop this thing from 10,000ft straight into the grand canyon and film the thing smashing into the pathetic bits it's made of.
and if anyone is listening at Roland then remember- Sat Nav and cruise control next time,not just a new exhaust pipe,or i'm off to computer land cause even Cakewalks Project5 has got a Roland groovesynth module(yes it's Rolands own product) included with all the classic basses and mc909 kits etc.

Ok MBot........you're right. I'm wrong.

I don't want to fight anymore. But I'm genuinely curious...Earlier, you made a heck of a post, with some nice atractive points about the Mo.......out of Curiousity, why didn't you get the Motif??


FantomS
AW4416
Now all I need is talent.
Anyone selling any talent??
member # 55
registered 21 May 2003

tundrkys98@yahoo.com Yahoo messenger: tundrkys98

Because it retailed for $5695(we must have done something to piss Yam Aus off as well) and i knew Yamaha was just milking the early stage of the sell off run. where as the FantomX was $4695 and the dude at the store new that i wouldn't accept anything less than a significant discount, so he came up with$3500; a hell of a difference between that and the MoES.My thinking was that i could still make a go of it,because i'd already worked with my other underspecified Roland product and managed to get a track played in a club just from that board alone, and completely unmastered i might add,namely the JX305groovesynth.Most of the FantomX's extra spec are just token gestures and a shift sidewards instead of forward,and i can't compete properly with today's hardarse rookies and mouse toting hotshots, without loopcrossfade and tonnes of highend phat dance orientated presets(as is found in the Dimension synth included in Project5vII) etc, which means i wait for Janurary NAMM to see any new releases,if they don't accomodate us with the ammunition to do the damage then i RELUCTANTLY leave hardware behind.
If i ran a music company that made workstations then the moto would be; KEEP UP WITH THE TIMES,THE PRODUCT SHOULD ASSUME TOTAL INDEPENDENCE:::
for people using both a computer and a workstation,it makes me wonder why they would pay for what essentially becomes a very heavy bulky friggen exspensive 64 meg sound module of mediocre and some above average presets.

M Bot I wasn't having a go at you before and if the people like the Yamaha action at the Yamaha forums then they can have it.

As far as why a computer and a workstation goes for me it is like this. A decent digital piano 2,000-4,000(aussie dollars) and it has a few basic sounds. The Fantom x8 4500(aussie dollars) with great action, decent sounds, the ability to add sounds. Cheaper than I could have done it anyother way. Plus it is all in one unit. That means I take everything with me. All digital pianos get a bit heavy anyways. I mean my guitar amp weighs the same as the Fantom.

Plus I have already used the skip back sampling feature while I've been just playing stuff to lock it down and use for later songs. It took me 15 minutes the other night to figure out what I was playing in one of my samples.Yes I created it but sometimes off the fly I come up with my best melodies etc....

I love using cakewalk and am still using home studio 7 because I know it inside and out. I love getting in and seeing the musical notes if they need altered. But you know that computer is an old one (200mmx) and can't do audio. So I can save midi files and play them through the fantom and sample them as wav files that can then be burnt to CD.

And yes the big screen, I really like it. It is a very user friendly board to get around.

My complaints are with their storage methods. Compact Flash????? Why not a USB port to back samples back up to.

So to sum it up if I only keep this Fantom for its piano action I am keeping it for life or as long as it lasts. I love the action and I love the Ultimate grand patch solo but in a band I layer to pianos together to cut through the mix.

Oh yes layering on this thing is awesome.