The Next Fantom (Roland) Workstation?

you need an external soundcard too

first off, tempo is really important on a workstation, and shouldn't be relegated to a multifunction knob (to the second function by pushing a button twice). spend the dough, install another knob. oh, and make the knobs have cool LED lights like on the Nord. that's CLASSY

second, add a numeric keypad and dedicated category buttons like on the XV88 -- the standard by which roland should be judged.

third, build in native support for the akai sample format. you want your own format? get over it already. akai is the industry standard, so just deal with it.

fourth, use a memory card format that is going to be around for a while. who the heck thought "let's use a pc card adapter?"
it may save roland some money initially (hey dude, we got these old unwanted computer parts really cheap) but if walmart can sell an 8mp digital camera for $200, then THAT'S the kind of memory we can use because it will be plentiful.

fifth, use a bigger brighter color screen, or add that VGA port that someone else mentioned. the oasys achilles heel? it's that a 12" screen is going to look so dated in oh, about one year. if 19" LCDs go for $200 this year, that's the size they should build in or attach to a $3000 synth next year.

my buddy who bought my fantom-s actually can't stand the drum pads -- a bit finicky, i agree, but i like them, especially because they light up. however it was a bit disappointing to discover exactly the same drum samples from my DR-550 (retired) and DR-660 and my buddy's old JV racks. perhaps roland could set a goal of building *100* new drum kits.

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Desperate times call for desperate measures.

Speaking of the XV-88, doesn't it have the same keybed as the Fantom X8?

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Roland Fantom X8
Yamaha EX-5
Roland JP-8000
Korg M1
Nord Lead 3

leves:

What do you need an external card for? To compose stuff with samplers and softsynths you don't need it. It's only needed for high-quality audio capture, and still when it adds to the total it's not that expensive.

jsepeta:

Hey, but tempo knob IS THERE on the Fantom: it's one of the knobs in ARP/RHYTHM mode.

"fourth, use a memory card format that is going to be around for a while"

There are at least 5 cards that will be around for a while, and noone knows which one will be obsolete next year.

artemio, you missed my point. to get to the tempo knob, you have to click a button to select that knob's SECOND feature. the primary function is release, which i think makes sense because all 4 of the knobs in primary mode relate to modding the sound as you play.

However, I think tempo should be a PRIMARY feature, and is worthy of having a dedicated knob.

**

as for the PC card format, I have an 8mb PC card, but it does not fit in the slot in the Fantom X8 (the pins line up differently). but that's ok, since 8mb doesn't really get you very much storage and having a compact flash adapter gives you tons more space. however, having to use an adapter to access your memory seems "rigged" not "engineered".

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Desperate times call for desperate measures.

jsepeta:

Tempo as a knob with a primary feature is *very* dangerous, you could twist it by accident and screw your live performance up. I'd never want it to work this way.

Also,
Personally I feel the PC Card slot more "professional" than a dedicated card slot. Roland did that with the Fantom-S that has a SmartMemory slot - I don't feel confortable with those. I'm glad I can choose the type of card I want to use.


o - ...just could not afford the 8
(
\_/
hear what I've done with the 7

on the mc505 Roland saved a little money by using a slot that only used 5v memory not both 5v and 3v cards. the 5v cards have pretty much disappeared and are quite rare. however the 3v was used on the fantom-s and is still available to some extent. now that memory cards are as big or bigger than sample cd's, 600mb - 1gb should be a minimum standard for future instruments.

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artemio, i have got to call BS on this quote:
"Tempo as a knob with a primary feature is *very* dangerous, you could twist it by accident and screw your live performance up. I'd never want it to work this way". Couldn't it also be used to quickly get into sync with a live drummer?

And may I point your attention to the volume knob? it's the same size as the knobs used for tempo, and might you also twist it by accident in the dark and screw up your live performance? puh-leaze.

Now how about the dedicated tempo knob on my Karma?
It's the same size as the 4 performance controller knobs, but it is spaced a bit aways from the other knobs so it does not get mistaken when the stage lights are low. Even my el-cheapo Novation KS-4 ($399!) has a dedicated tempo knob.

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Desperate times call for desperate measures.

1. More effects, more effects, more effects
2. More preset patches
3. All the drum sounds from Roland, not just some select ones. More drum preset rhythms
4. Softer drum pads.
5. VGA port.

When you make an SRX card, include tons of effects on it to expand the effects. Yamaha can do it so can Roland.

Jsepta, Artemio appears to defend the Roland product faithfully. He makes no sense about the dedicated tempo knob. Every knob you could hit and #%@& up your performance. You and I know that we learned every knob on our synth in the dark, just like the keys.

Personally I wait for the next SRX board with good Hammond sounds and drawbar and rotary settings in piano mode... (just like SRX-13). I believe it's the G70 which has drawbar functionality, isn't it a shame it is not available for the fantom! (Yeah I know about B4Real, but I think it can be a lot better with a dedicated user interface on the color screen...)

jsepeta:

At first, I will not allow you to call anyone's statement "BS", as it simply is impolite my friend.

Second, there is such a thing as Human Interface Guidelines. In general, this is what help people create a logical and ergonomic interface, which is also very "safe" to use in critical situations. For example, your Fantom doesn't allow you to switch between patch and performance modes while the sequencer is running - in XP series this could screw up your live performance.

Having a tempo knob with tempo as it's primary function is, again, dangerous. With a volume knob - say you touch it by accident, the level changes, but it's not hard to bring it back. For tempo, change it even a bit, and it's much harder to bring it back to where it was unless you remember the value exactly, not to mention it's much audible, especially with songs which have sounds and samples designed and laid out for a certain tempo.

As an example, V-Synth has a dedicated tempo knob. It has no sequencer but an arp so it makes more sense, but I must say it's very easy to touch it with no intention because V-Synth has a real lot of controllers and your fingers just walk through them literally.

sorry to borrow a phrase from the vernacular in my last address -- no offense was intended. I was going to say "baloney" but i'm not sure you're familiar with american processed meat-like food :-0 what i meant to say is that i disagree with you and think that what you wrote ignores an entire marketplace of people for whom

human interface guidelines would likely suggest that if there were something you wanted to use frequently like volume or power, you'd place it near your right hand, as most people are right-handed. but on most keyboards, controls are placed on the left because they expect us to play music with our right hands, and control /modulate what we're playing with our left. hence, the VK-8's drawbars are on the left, not in the center.

now drawbars (not sliders) and some knobs have detents so you can feel it when you move from one value to another. sadly, roland's knobs on the fantom spin from leftmost to rightmost point without any physical feedback to your fingers.

as the tempo is usually just a tiny piece of text on the display, I agree that this *can* be a problem with adjusting the tempo to an exact amount -- and tempo is important enough for exact amounts whereas volume, attack, modulation, chorus, etc can be less specific. so in that case, yes, I think that the engineers should place a tempo control someplace not near the volume control and use a type of knob that has "steps" not so that you would necessarily have to go from 115 to 160 in 45 clicks but so that you could get a "feel" for how far you have to turn. my remote25 has several such knobs, so I know that they're not terribly difficult or expensive to include on a professional instrument.

just a little out of the box thinking here, but if the problem is that tempo adjustments are critical, maybe that needs a dedicated 3 character LED display matching the BPM -- can't you see this as being a helpful feature for dj's and dance music producers? and since pretty flashing lights are important features when selling a synth (not kidding) there should be a light that blinks with the tempo so you can see the beat pulsing slower or faster. my virus classic does that

that reminds me, i can't really stand roland and korg's joysticks. yamaha, moog, kurzweil and others use pitch and mod wheels. who here would prefer pitch and mod wheels to replace the roland joystick? me for one. Korg offers an option for the Triton Studio but I'm afraid Roland doesn't recommend modding your synth. I hope that they're reading this forum, because this is something that has nagged me since the days when I owned an XP30 (the best darned gigging synth for a good decade).

laibach, I'm afraid I can't go into what I may or may not have done with my synths in the dark. but one day i'm sure they'll go to the press and complain about the fondling, the touching, and playing with them until I got so tired i could barely keep my eyes open

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Desperate times call for desperate measures.

1. On many Roland DJ gear like the MC boxes there really is an LCD for BPM, and sometimes even a slider to control the tempo, and in this type of device it is useful. But again, I am really sure a tempo knob is not for a general-purpose device.

2. No, no! Roland pitch / mod bender RULEZ 4 EVER!!!

"What do you need an external card for?"

For more than 2 outs. "8 routable outs" "More audio outs!!!! 4 is LAME"

"To compose stuff with samplers and softsynths you don't need it."

That's right.

"It's only needed for high-quality audio capture, and still when it adds to the total it's not that expensive."

Yes, it's still cheaper.