juno-g versus soft synth

Both solutions have advantages. You can get a laptop and many softsynths and samplers for a price unbeatable by hardware, and even have more features. But having all "real", with knobs, sliders, etc. is more inspiring. Ideally, you have to have both.

As about Juno-G, it has 128 voices *guaranteed*, as it's a DSP-based synth with a dedicated generator chip. Plus it has a classic Roland sound and effects, something not available with any software.

Actually, going for a laptop with some softsynths, plus a Juno-G, makes a truly awesome setup, my friend! Juno-G has USB-MIDI so it'll work like a controller, and you'll be able to use the knobs and the D-beam with your softsynths. Plus you'll be able to use it's great sounds and effects.

thanks,
So using soft synth I cannot get this Roland specific sounds?
I mean can't I sample in them the the pc somehow?
that part I wasn't sure.
Looks like still waiting for juno-g then.

Sampling turns a synth patch into a static sound, it cannot be controlled/morphed/modified in realtime, just as you cannot change the words you said after you recorded yourself.

+1 to what art said. Both lappy+softie and Juno-G have advantages and disadvantages. Laptop gives you more power and flexibility for a cheap price whereas juno g gives you good sounds and a sequencer in a crash-free hardware system.

Personally, if you didnt gig THAT much, i'd say go with laptop+ controller. You can get a controller with many knobs and sliders for a cheap prices (around 300 will fetch ya a good one), AND it'll play perfectly well with reason.

To be honest, nowadays, my Fantom S is only getting used as a controller, that too, rarely. The freebie softsynths such as Ray 73/22, Synth1, protoplasm, etc., provide me with a lot of stuff to play with. Reason gives me the sounds i need, and with sample libraries that i purchased recently, i've expanded my palette of sounds.

So, if you ask me (and if i was starting out new), i'd go with a computer/laptop + a controller (like novation SL/CME UF series/Alesis photon) + reason/kontakt + some sample libraries totalling 100 bux + sonar.



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If at first you dont succeed, then skydiving is definitively not for you.

Does anyone know if you can scroll through your presets and banks with a good controller??

I used to use an EPS 16+ to control my softsynths, but it could only do patch changes....... I couldn't change banks... it was a real pain in the arse.......

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sambasevam , would then soft synth give you same quality sounds
like in roland or yamaha hardware?
From Art post I sensed that not really. Can I have same grand piano or rhodes using only software??? still confused about that.

I recently spent a few months going down the soft synth route with the intention of replacing my X7 with a controller and laptop overflowing with soft synths. I have chosen to stick with the X7 and have given up on the laptop route. Here are just some of my thoughts on why I did this (please note my main use of the keyboard is almost 100% live play or practice, I do not do any sequencing etc.):

The X7 feels likes a musical instrument, the laptop only ever felt like I was playing a computer.

I could not find any controllers to come close to the quality of the X7 keyfeel. The closest was the CME UF7 but that board is quite heavy and large and so doesn't really give any benefit for transportability that I hoped to achieve. The next best controller for me was any from the Novation range which all use the same action - unfortunately these are only 61 notes max. and if you hit them hard they really clatter. I could have coped with 61 keys and using the new remote SL really apealled to me but the noisy keys just put me off. The other aspect was that I felt very nervous about gigging with a laptop and no backup sounds. So really I always thought I needed a controller with sounds in it.

I never found a good way of browsing patches easily and quickly. Once you find what you want then getting back is easy. Perhaps NI's KORE will address this but initally this will only give good access to patches in NI's Komplete suite. I actually used Brainspawn's Forte Live as a host which was very good and from a live set perspective is exactly what I would like to see in X7's live mode.

So what about sounds - well I mostly use bread and butter sounds, Acoustic Pianos, Electric Pianos, Organs, Lots of Pads, some synth leads etc. and I do very little editing of sounds, just use them out of the box. I think my point here would be that I think the X7 provides a much more polished and finished sound set than anything I could find in a soft synth. I suspect Rolands investment in this area is far greater than a soft synth manufacturer. I suspect if you are prepared to spend a long time editing and adding your own effects etc. you can come up with something good. So for example I never found any realy nice floatly flute leads or pads that you find on the Studio SRX. I could never find an out of the box piano to match the BrightPopV/S piano on the Complete Piano SRX. Sure I could have probably edited up some stuff, but that is just not my cup of tea.

What did I try:
Steinberg Hypersonic: which is meant to offer a similar soundset to a workstation type synth. It didn't really have any character and I could never find any wow sounds that jump out at you. Maybe if I'd compared this with my JV80 when I bought it 10 years ago I might have thought it sounded quite good.

Steinberg Grand 2: For me this was the best piano I found and it seemed to sit nicely in a mix. I could have used this but I did find the two or three second load time annoying for live use. I know its not much but somehow I found it diffcult to get used to.

Synthogy Ivory: These pianos were very good for solo use, I couldn't find much that sat well in a mix though. Also same comment on load times as the Grand 2.

East West Colossus: I had really high hopes for this as a workstation replacement, but I was really dissapointed in the quality of the sounds. I suspect I needed to spend some time adding decent effects. This just shows that bigger is not really better as this sample set is 32GByte and doesn't cover anywhere near the sonic range of the Fantom.

NI FM7: This makes some great sounds, I love FM and this was one of the reasons I wanted to go soft.

NI Pro53: Again I liked the sounds but I wouldn't have used much on this. (I only used the demo with a limited patch set)

Spectrasonics Atmosphere: This was really good for pads, but most of them were just too big and I would have had to spend a lot of time editing.

NI B4: This was the only area where I thought soft-synths could out-perform the X7 for my needs.

Korg Legacy Digital: Exactly what it said on the tin, a Korg M1 and Wavestation. Really good fun and some nice sounds.

Please remember these are just my own opinions based on my use and perceptions. Lets just face it, I'm in love with my X7 as a fantastic musical instrument.

-Paul.

Sorry got a bit off topic and carried away in my last post.

As far as Juno G versus Soft Synth, if it was me I would go with the Juno G (even if the key feel may not be upto the standard of the Fantom S/X's). I think it is more self contained and easy to operate. I would make more music and spend less time thinking what new soft synth shall I buy. And it would feel more like a musical experiment. I also think it would be necessary to spend a lot of money to come close to the polished sound that Juno will have with heritage of Fantom/XP etc.

But it all depends what you want to do with it. Certainly Juno G would be my preference for any live based setup.

- Paul.

thanks Paul
for sharing your expirience. I think I get it.
1.So out of the box you won't get quality sounds found
in the e.g. roland hardware. If you do you end up paying much more then for the hardware.
2.Soft synth are not easy to use in opose to real instrument,
probably for very good keyboard midi controler you pay not much less then for e.g juno-g.
3.They have no soul like real instrument, so are not inspiring,
and you are tight to laptop.

paulgee

I've never listened to any soft synth sounds but surely they must be close to the Fantom????

Anyway I was going to go the controller/ laptop/ soft synth software route until the Fantom x8 came along.

I really like the x8 and having everything on one machine at my fingertips.

The only thing it can't really handle is audio editing. The times are too slow so I use a PC for that at the moment and then dump the wavs back into the fantom for the final mixdown.

cuborg - Yes a good summary of how I feel about it.

da-man - For pure synth stuff you will see I liked things like FM7, PRO53, B4 etc. So yes in that department I think just for sound quality things are as good. The problem I had was with the finished patches of the sampled stuff - for real instrument emulations and synthetic variations on those. So something like Colossus was deeply dissapointing for me, and this is where the Roland really shines. To me it just shows that providing bigger samples is not the whole story.

But you must remember my usage is very specific (as I already outlined) and I don't use a lot of the heavily synth stuff on the X7. For me the Roland VR760 would almost be enough but not quite.

-Paul.

i'll throw my 2 cents into the mix in a very long sentence:

I have the majority of my tools on my audio computer, and have a laptop that could probably have handled a good bit of live performance, however I bought an X6 because it a) provides everything I need for live performance with a full band dropping in loops and pads/keys and b) DRAMATICALLY SIMPLIFIES the gigging process.

Just being able to pack up a keyboard and go, and know that although it is not as powerful in some ways, nor as fast in some ways, as what you've got in the studio, is degrees of magnitude easier than unhooking your computer (even if it is a laptop, you know there is more than one cable coming out the back) and moving all the separate components, setting them up on a stage (hardware needs will vary), actually using them (make sure you've got a good mouse position so you can flip through presets and between different soft synths simultaneously)... etc etc.

Now, should the day come that I need to bring the laptop anyway, I will - but for live performance the Fantom makes my practice/performanec experience much happier.

On the other hand, Fantom's power doesn't really approach the flexibility of something like Reaktor for certain things. So don't throw the computer into the unused gear pile. I plug mine in as a controller during the week, with local off and treating it as a sound module, then it becomes the performance keyboard out of this room. Sure I make concessions but I do so at the gain of having one main thing to keep track of while I'm out of the house.

To the original poster,
if you're just looking at the sounds, softsynths cant be beat for the price. For the piano, Ivory costs like 349 something USD and it blows every other piano in competition.

As for EP, even the freebie ones (for ex : mr.ray 22/77) are better than the default stock patches in roland hardware. The paid ones are phenomenal. Again, cant be beat.

For orchestra/strings/guitars/drums : again, softsynths win. The sounds are as realistic as you can get. With script programming, you can even build your own "expression" in the patch (for ex : Kontakt).

So, as far as the quality of sounds goes, softsynths win hands down. Hardware gear wins in stability and hands-on control.



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If at first you dont succeed, then skydiving is definitively not for you.

So the future will be like integrating notebook with
keyboard to simplify the playing/composing expirience.
Something like oasis? Personally I hate doing anything
with music if I have to "mouse around".