I'm thinking of selling my Fantom...

Hello Phait,

Keep your workstation.

I'm not saying this because of narrow-mindedness, but because of a shared empathy of what you're talking about.

For years I recorded demos and originals using a TEAC 4 track Simul Sync reel-to-reel and a Tapco mixer. Everything was done using 'real' instruments in real time. No quantizing, no instant transposing, or the like. I then bought my first keyboard, a Roland Juno something or other, and was hooked. Before you knew it, I had a triple tier with various modules and keys, and I'm a bass player for God's sake! I even took piano lessons at the local University and paid for them by teaching Bass and Jazz Theory. It was just so much easier to get my ideas down and in some sort of form where they could be heard quickly. MIDI was a godsend. I would come in from the gig, work on tunes, then go to the day job in a daze. Exploring the myriad sounds and textures was enthralling and creative in its own sense.


What I soon found, however, was that I was beginning more and more to use the 'natural' instrument sounds on the synths; trying to emulate a 'real' band. This was OK because I could lay down originals and present them to the boys in the band, and they could get a good idea of what I wanted. I'm primarily a Jazz/Latin Jazz and funk player, so the stuff sounded much better when the band was throwin' it down, and it was because of what you are calling the 'performance' aspect.

I then had the good fortune to hook up with a keyboard player out of the Bay area who could swing his ass off, jam a Cumbia or Samba, but also use a synth to texture and color the music. He would do some of that Herbie stuff, some booga-nose in-yo-face funk with the advanced harmonies and rhythmic s**t goin' on. He could then turn around and play a sweet ballad or standard and use the synth to lay down some of the lushest pads and beds you ever want to hear. We gigged for a couple of years and had great fun.

Back on the home front I then found myself looking at my synth stuff in a different way. I became more interested in using the instrument for what it was. . . an instrument with its own creative potential and capabilities. It's kinda like going to the gig with only my electric bass (I play a Pedulla fretless and a Clevinger electric upright 'stick on a stand') and having someone complain that I didn't bring my acoustic doublebass. Once they "shut up and play" and hear what can happen, we usually kick it. I can 'perform' on either acoustic or electric.

I guess what I'm saying is that anything can be a 'real' instrument. I'm originally from Louisiana and have heard cats layin' it down with spoons, washboards, and whatever else was around the house. It's matter of perspective and how you approach it. . . . . . . I see my Fantom as a real instrument with a lot of potential, I just need to get my head around how it fits within the I music create. Almost all of my tunes are originally written from my Taylor acoustic guitar, one of my basses, or my Baldwin piano. I then take it to the Fantom and play flesh it out. Some of the Pads add great texture, and all kinds of other cool things get happening. I can explore polyrhytmic ideas and the like.

Remember when Dylan was booed when he played an electric guitar? And then Hendrix showed just how creative it could be. . . . a matter of approach. So keep the workstation. It's just another 'real' instrument. I'm sure you'll find how it fits into what you're doing. Just my very long $.02 worth!

And think, you'll save yourself the trouble of buying another board later on. . . .
; -))


P.S. (Sorry for such a long reply. . . )

Bassman

yep... never get rid of gear even if you dont use it... you dont know what you got till its gone


JC THE MC...

phait,
my advice for you is to get into sampling and stuff. like, go get some sample CDs for real instruments. there are wonderful sample packs from east west, bigfish audio and such....get the ORCHESTRA sample packs and other stuff like organs, strings, etc. max out your sample memory to 288 MB, get a couple of 128 MB SM cards and ur good to go.

also, see if you can process your guitar through that wonderful guitar amp in the FS/use it as a FX box. there are pretty much endless ways to use them. get the tweak book and start tweaking stuff. u'll certainly regret selling the fantom i think. after some time, u have a chance of getting sick with making sounds with only guitars though. it's possible. so, stick with your FS/guitar combo. thats my 0.02$

Sambasevam.S

Every gear I ever sold I regretted afterwards - and sometiimes I bought it back later and wasted lots of money. Selling only works if you upgrade to something better.

Isn?t there an old saying about you never regret the gear that you didn?t sell, only the gear that you did sell? Besides, unfortunately the Fantom-S is not selling for much now days anyway and in my opinion it is worth more to keep it than what it can be sold for.

______________________________________________________________________
Check out Lawrence's Fantom-S website: http://fantom.wilkesworld.co.uk/
Check out Artemio's other Fantom-S website: http://artemiolabs.com/

I agree,,, Sell it..I'm on your side..don't stress your self if u can't get it to sound real enough. get rid of it...


Septimo ,'^)

Have you considered combining the two ideas? Using some 'real' instruments to augment what you use in the board? Have you zeroed in on what you feel is missing?

There are a lot of tricks you can do to make the internal sounds more lifelike, for instance try layering a couple kicks on top of each other and add a little reverb to one of them. Also, often basslines sound like they were played on keyboards, try making it sound like a real bassplayer. As an example, use two bass patches, one nice clean one giving the outline of the bassline, and the other a slap bass which you use just to play accents. Study how a great player sounds and try to recreate it, keep in mind that its not just the real instrument you crave but also the real player.

A lot of times music made straight from a board sounds kind of sterile to me, too mechanical. I have gotten away from quantizing because of this. The little imperfections in my timing add life to the music. A side benefit is that since I need to be more exact I tend to lock into the groove better, giving me more insight into what the music needs. Even great drummers vary a bit over a song, perfection is often too harsh to be beautiful.

Phait, I have my S and I use more and more real instruments in my music. My latest track (soon to be released) has tambourine, shaker, rain and many other samples recorded on the S. The S is still the centre of my studio, it gives me many killer abilities, it's flexible and it inspires me a lot.

If the S simply doesn't inspire you anymore, maybe you need a break. Cover it with a piece of material and forget about it. Maybe even forget about making music at all. Then, after 2-3 weeks you will find out if you need to sell it or not.


A.

PHAIT, I thought you were a guitar player like me.

If so, then run your Fantom with sequencing software like Sonar or ProTools. My Fantom is basically a drum machine for me, most of my stuff is real guitar and bass. I add Organs, Piano, and Rhodes alot too, which is why I needed something more than just a drum machine. Of course I've got a sampler and B4 inside my computer, but I generally prefer to work those parts out on the Fantom, then switch the sounds in Sonar. I prefer Scarbee's Rhodes, & B4. So true usually stays as my piano sounds, and if I decide to go with a synth bass, that will also come off the Fantom.


FantomS
AW4416
Now all I need is talent.
Anyone selling any talent??
member # 55
registered 21 May 2003

I do play guitar, but I don't like recording direct, it sounds horrible. When I say real instruments I mean everything - no more sequenced drums, no keyboards at all.

It's a tough decision...

I would consider keeping a keyboard around even if I felt the way you do. It is kind of nice to have a "scratch pad" from which to draw ideas off on. Granted it may not sound like the finished product you want, but at least you can get your ideas down where someone else can hear them and try a few things.

Phait, I don't quite get you. If you want to try something, why ask? Go for it! Buy a couple of ethnic drums, a tambourine, some shakers and experiment with them. Record a wild synth bass part over a drum/percussion mayhem and I think you'll see that you can use your FS in very, very different contexts.


A.

Alot of you are saying dont get rid of your gear even if you dont use it> that makes no sense, I had a Mesa Boogie Triple rec for about 4 years, i thikn i used it once for recording once in the last year, I had gotten so bored of it, that I would rent it out. I ended up selling it for my Fantom X. I dont regret it at all.. Sometimes getting new things is good. If you have the money to buy instruments Phait go for it. But yo uwould be spending over 30 k easily. if not much more if you want good quality.

Partho- BTD-
" Its not the Fall that kills you..........(thump) its the sudden stop at the end"- Vin Diesel

just my opinion

depending on how long you have been a musician this discussion is prettty familiar. some musicians are tortured souls that really cant figure out much on their own, and they arent very good at talking about it. so they play music and sometimes its good and sometimes they get popular. but all in all they are just searchin for peace in some small way. musicians also go through periods of insanity where they sell all their worthless gear ( in their minds) and 1 month later regret it because tom toms are just not as romantic as they seemed to be at the time. the tendency of a musician to become a purist is very common a musician will go back to their roots or something that they hold dear. and will curse anyone that speaks of new technology or easy..

the reason that music is created by musicians is that no one else goes to the trouble of expressing their frustration they way that we do. creatively through music. frustration is part of the process.

so hang in there phait.

buy some tom toms and try it out. but i would advise you not to sell your gear because you will probably want to play it in a few months...and you wont be able to...


JC THE MC...