32 Track Sequencer? needed?!?!?!

originally posted by dansgold
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Yes, you can bounce tracks around so that you get the same end-result of 16 internal PLUS 16 external, but at the cost of a LOT of hassle and a loss of immediacy and flexibility.
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I'm sorry, but I think immediacy left the argument after 8 midi tracks, and MIDIguru's method seems just as flexible as any.


Fantom-S
AW4416
Now all I need is talent.
Anyone selling any talent??
member # 55
registered 21 May 2003

You are honestly telling me that having a distinct track for each internal/external MIDI channel is more confusing and less flexible than bouncing/rechanneizing tracks all around to various sequencer tracks to achieve the same results?

You are welcome to your opinion. But let's just examine this together, OK?

Let's say I want to have 10 tracks of internal sounds PLUS 9 tracks of external MIDI devices/channels. I've just added my 16th track - an internal sound - and now I want to add a track for an external device. For sake of argument, let's just say I have my tracks organized like this, where I=Internal, E=External, and the numbers represent MIDI channels:

I1 I2 I3 I4 I5 I6 I7 I8 I9 I10 E1 E2 E3 E4 E5 E6

Well, If I have 32 available sequncer tracks, I just go to the next track, set it to External and assign the MIDI channel ... boom I'm recording my 17th track.

With the current 16 tracks on the FantomX, I have a problem: I've run out of tracks. So, what I have to do is copy/bounce one track to another. Not such a big deal (even though it IS a few key presses!) in and of itself - provided that I really don't want to record any changes to the track that I bounce. Let's say I do that, and I bounce E6 to occupy the same space with E1. So now I have:

I1 I2 I3 I4 I5 I6 I7 I8 I9 I10 E1/6 E2 E3 E4 E5

I can now take track #16 and assign it as E7, like so:

I1 I2 I3 I4 I5 I6 I7 I8 I9 I10 E1/6 E2 E3 E4 E5 E7

OK, so now I record a new bunch of stuff in E7 and I want to add an E8. I'm back to the copy/paste/bounce routine (just read the various threads on this sire where this process completely confuses people, BTW), and I end of perhaps like this (after adding E8):

I1 I2 I3 I4 I5 I6 I7 I8 I9 I10 E1/6 E2/7 E3 E4 E5 E8

and like this after adding my 9th track:

I1 I2 I3 I4 I5 I6 I7 I8 I9 I10 E1/6 E2/7 E3/8 E4 E5 E9

OK, so now all of my rough tracks are in place, right? Well, now I decide I'm not too happy with something in E6, and I want to erase a few notes. Scrolling through the note list, I have TWICE as much stuff to scroll through, and it's all mixed up with E1 data ... makes it much more difficult to do any quick editing. (Just imagine the mess you'd have with several MIDI channels on one track!)

I also decide that I want to re-record E2 altogether. Hmmm, if I had 32 distinct tracks I'd just hit "record" - having the Fantom in "replace mode" and record away.

But now, I have to copy/paste/bounce E8 someplace so that I can "make room" for another take, like this:

I1 I2 I3 I4 I5 I6 I7 I8 I9 I10 E6 E2/7 E3/8

And then re-record E1 as the last track where E* is.

Consider the sheer number of key presses required to try the above example, as opposed to simply selecting the discrete track you want and working in a straight forward fashion.

This kind of thing occurs to me becasue I've worked BOTH ways with various sequencers over 20+ years, and one way clearly works better than the other.

"With the current 16 tracks on the FantomX, I have a problem: I've run out of tracks. So, what I have to do is copy/bounce one track to another. Not such a big deal (even though it IS a few key presses!)"


Haha thats awesome!!! It is a few key presses haha, I dont think its that big of a problem i mean 16 X16 is a ton of channels haha and now we have 8 external tracks as you guys want to call them so we have 16+8 mono or 4 stereo....im happy with that....VERY HAPPY!

I'm not so much complaining as explaining why 32 tracks is a lot better than 16.

I am quite happy with my X6, and expect to like it even more with the V2 update, but that's not the point.

As I said, I've been at this sequencing/MIDI thing for a long time ... in fact, since it was first invented. Some things work better than others, and I'd be willing to bet that most people with my level of experience would agree.

Consider that if the Fantom had 32 tracks instead of 16, and the additional 16 tracks worked exactly like they do now ... this wouldn't complicate things for you at all. You could simply ignore the extra 16 tracks ... no big thing.

Hell, I'd even go for having to enable an "advanced mode" parameter to activate the additional channels ... keep it simple for the newbs ... fine by me.

But there is ZERO question about 32 tracks providing greater flexibility and ease-of-use for projects using a large number of internal and external tracks. It's not even arguable.

"What's the difference if you can put all 16 internal channels on track 1 and all external channels (presumably hooked up to a sound module that plays on 16 channels) on track 2? "

Hmmm....

You`ve actualy stated somthing that was not concidered..

we have 16 Tracks in the sequencer not channels...
each sequencer track can transmit all 1-16 channels midi.

now if we assume track 1 has all channels 1-16 plaing externaly

then we have track 2-16 left to setup as another 15 internal channels

Hmmm... interestng...

Results not Excuses



QuinnX universal tranlator below:-
(lets not be misunderstood)

!!!!!! ephasis not anger
!!?? confusion or Stupidity
ABC are you getting the point
&*$% Anger (but rarely seen)

Man you have more than enough trax on this machine,when I load 1 song I can have between 15-20 entire songs to choose from for my first show.I toggle between the trax & patterns
track1 = ladies nite,ptrn1 = always & forever,
track2 = I like The Way You Move,ptrn2 = 1999,
and so on,and so on.And as far as the trax go you can choose off,int,midi,both in the song edit screen.Track1 can contain int sounds(X6),Track2 can be in my case ext(midi) sounds(SK-88)which has a 32 part system.So in my case I can have up to 48 midi track to 1 song if I needed.plus the 8 audio with upgrade.But you definitely can have 32 parts per song. Hey art is there a way to set these parameters using' sysex?(off,int,midi,both)

yeah except this would be more use full if, when you switched a track to MIDI
when you play on the keyboard you did not hear the fantom play?

Results not Excuses



QuinnX universal tranlator below:-
(lets not be misunderstood)

!!!!!! ephasis not anger
!!?? confusion or Stupidity
ABC are you getting the point
&*$% Anger (but rarely seen)

Thats why the have the off so you don't hear FX or whatever
if you dont want to hear that.

no, you missed my point..
what im saying is, for recording purposes

if i switch to midi i should here only the external midi on that channel when using the keybaord

Where as both would allow you to hear internal and ext..

Results not Excuses



QuinnX universal tranlator below:-
(lets not be misunderstood)

!!!!!! ephasis not anger
!!?? confusion or Stupidity
ABC are you getting the point
&*$% Anger (but rarely seen)

you lost me bro.what are you sayin?

I think you guys could help me. I have been trying to get the Fantom X sequencer to play my Motif Rack. No Luck..I have set track to external, I think, and toggled every other setting I could find. I am not getting it. Any body have time to give me a step by step or lead me to where the answer is? Thanks!

I started a seperate thread...

The extra 8 tracks were definately needed on the x, I still have the -s. Where it would come in handy, is when you want to record vocals, and you can put each verse on a different track , and then the solo guitar, chorus...it helps to have each of these seperate when mixing. it's so easy if you got the tracks available.