Fantom 6,7,8 v3.02

happyfantomuser wrote:

Hey guys. This isn't the big update! : ) See more here!

https://articles.roland.com/roland-engineering-designing-fantom/?fbclid=IwAR2LrOdx3Kv7jkxSKJ0307WtENCj67fve0USHdXK206mFn3aRiN-4BSalLY_aem_AZ-ZEcOPE_HH8lKgzEjpCwH5usg6LzVzbsg09qPEpb0BaMQxG2k-Pll6o1R5p7aiqgc

The important part is....

"What can FANTOM users look forward to soon?

The FANTOM Development Team has been working hard to unveil a massive breakthrough: bringing Analog Circuit Behavior (ACB) to FANTOM. We are excited to share this, plus other new expansions and features, with all FANTOM users very soon."

Update drops in November!

Great news! (It's also good news that they have improved aftertouch, but I have not testet it yet)

danx wrote:

"bringing Analog Circuit Behavior (ACB) to FANTOM"

So instead of the actual ABM, Fantom will be able to handle ACB.
Since ACB consume more cpu resources I wonder how this will affect polyphony and other performance functions, and how much Roland will want to charge for the "new" (Jupiter, Juno, etc.) ACB model expansions...
Pretty sure they won't be free.

Good point. The polyphony in the Fantom-0 is a handled like a joke with notes cutting all the time. Same with Fantom, if you don't use the V-Piano engine... and with the Models reducing the polyphony drastically. This is something that Yamaha handles very well (don't remember having a soundcut ever)

Fingers crossed... November is around the corner

Italosynth wrote:

And people will say that Roland doesn’t listen to user feedback/comments. Well compared to Yamaha, Roland seems to be all ears.

How do you even reach Roland for feedback/comments? There seems to be no way to get requests to Roland. Yamaha 1-ups them there with ideascale.

Italosynth wrote:

When I think of my Fantom when lusting over the new Montage M, I begin to see how much better the Fantom already is

Fantom does still have lots of advantages... like all the different VA synth models, a dedicated 9-slider drawbar organ emulation, V-Piano, some of the SuperNATURAL behavior stuff, dedicated synth controls, analog filter, trigger pads, the drum-machine/arranger style rhythm pattern function, scene chain, specific mainstage/logic/ableton integration. But some of the advantages Fantom had over the Montage are gone... The M gives the Montage some of what had been Fantom advantages, like the ability to arbitrarily assign parts to receive on whatever MIDI channel you'd like, and having VA synth at all... and it looks like the Montage operational interface may no longer lag the Fantom's. That may be subjective, but if it does lag, certainly not by as much.

But also, Yamaha will retain previous advantages of its own, along with adding new ones... like having an FM engine, having what was 8 and is now 128 Elements per Part (compared to Fantom's 4 Partials per part), two insert effects per part (instead of Fantom's 1), more measures per pattern (256 bars vs. 64, IIRC), better navigation between pages of sounds (the Scene vs. Live Set pages), class compliant audio over USB (so that function works with iPads), better ability to move Parts (internal or external) from one Scene/Performance to another. It now has more sample memory too (for keyboard playable parts), and what seems like a lot more polyphony (more on that below). And the forthcoming free VST version looks really intrigiuing. I don't know that many Fantom owners would be tempted to switch, but I think Yamaha has at least made it a tougher choice for new buyers.

neomad wrote:

The polyphony in the Fantom-0 is a handled like a joke with notes cutting all the time. Same with Fantom, if you don't use the V-Piano engine... and with the Models reducing the polyphony drastically. This is something that Yamaha handles very well (don't remember having a soundcut ever)

Yeah, there is a difference in the way they handle this. Roland has dedicated polyphony for the V-Piano, but all other engines (straight sample-based, assorted VA, n/zyme, VTW, SuperNATURAL acoustic stuff) hits the same polyphony pool, similar to Kronos where all 9 engines had different polyphony specs, but whatever you used for one would lessen what was available for another. Yamaha is maintaining separate polyphony for the sample engine , the FM engine, and now the VA engine, so you can combine sounds from whatever engines, and the use of sounds from one won't impact the available polyphony for another. Yamaha's new separate polyphony for the user sample section is interesting, too... it would be as if any Fantom sounds you used from your user sample library didn't affect the polyphony of the rest of your sounds either.

happyfantomuser wrote:

Update drops in November!

The article does not sound as if there will be an update this November. Do you have other sources that make you think that there will be an update in November? And if so, are they different than the ones that made you say in August that an update would be coming in 1 or 2 weeks?

It's interesting to see that Yamaha has released an upgrade to their flagship, keeping it a flagship, while Korg's new release was to deprecate the Kronos in favor of the Nautilus (effectively a Fantom-0 / Mod X / "Kronos Lite"). Their pricing is also... optimistic.

It also seems to me that in many ways Yamaha is playing catch up. As I watched the videos, a number of times a feature was touted that made me think, "Yeah, they got that from the Fantom," particularly in the area of UI and hardware controllers. They've also added an analog engine for synths. Very cool for Montage upgraders, but both Fantom and Kronos already have robust analog synth environments (and the Kronos has an FM engine as well). Their sequencer is more comparable to the Kronos and nowhere near the usability of the Fantom (it was a key factor in my purchase decision).

Polyphonic aftertouch is one of the few things I saw where Yamaha was stepping forward from the rest of the pack, where Kronos has channel aftertouch and Fantom owners would just be happy with a better implementation of aftertouch in general.

The polyphony claims are impressive. Roland also made marketing noise about polyphony when the Fantom first came out, just like all keyboard manufacturers do. It remains to be seen if reality matches marketing for the Montage M, although given the documented problems with Fantom it seems reasonable that they would have the edge there as well.

Without a doubt, there are issues remaining on the Fantom that a serious bug fix / feature tweak update would be good for. Whether or not they offer such fixes is anyone's guess, but this exact same complaint can be heard on the forums of every major manufacturer, regardless of model. While we might think it counterintuitive, what helps to sell more keyboards will always be more important to a manufacturer than what annoys customers. It's only when those two align that something gets done. That's just the nature of the business world.

I watched the Montage M videos because I'm a musician and window shopping helps satisfy my GAS urges. And it's definitely a cool keyboard. However, pound for pound, there's not enough in it to make me want to sell either my Kronos or my Fantom. With the exception of polyphonic aftertouch, there's not much I could do an a Montage M that I can't already do with what I have.

As for the Fantom and updates, I bought it based on 3.01, knew about all the features and deficiencies, and decided it was a good bang for the buck all things considered. I assumed that it would never get another update, and if it does, that's bonus. As everyone who's helped me the past couple of months knows, I worked my way through a number of issues, got them sorted, and I'm happy with what I have even though there's a new shiny object on the horizon.

If I had nothing and had to choose today between the Kronos, Fantom and Montage M, the Kronos would still be first, the Fantom second, and the latest Montage offering would still come in third.

octavian7000 wrote:

now V3.02 aftertouch it works much better has many intermediate values compared to why it was only 0-1 before . with system setting value 10. Roland Fantom gives good performance after you learn to use it well in 2-3 years.

I did a quick test with my Fantom 6. I set aftertouch sensitivity to 60% and pressure range to 10 and recorded aftertouch modulation to the sequencer. I managed to make a nice linear curve between min and max now.

YIKES what a let down. Im with you I'm going to move on as well: the board cant handle the studio task the fantom x7 handles, cant record in a linear fashion which is needed to record vibe and feeling for me. But the biggest letdown for me with this entire Roland experience is that when you do bring up a gripe and complaint, the other owners grovel to the defense of Roland. I feel the @ss kissing factor or possibly roland platform trolls has kept this board from evolving. Its just a toy, how can you regress from the fantom g series.

IM charging my sweetwater card for the new montage m7 76 as soon as i get off this forum. have fun y'all

While we wait for November, I leave you with this ON HOLD music...

[attachment: On hold.jpg] [attachment: FGM 2023 C7C ON HOLD 2T #FGM.mp3] 😀😀😀😀
🎹🎹🎹🎹

osflaa wrote:

I did a quick test with my Fantom 6. I set aftertouch sensitivity to 60% and pressure range to 10 and recorded aftertouch modulation to the sequencer. I managed to make a nice linear curve between min and max now.

This sounds like it's a significant improvement for aftertouch, something that people have been wanting for quite some time now.

Most of the feedback on 3.02 has been various shades of disappointment. Is that because the aftertouch fix still isn't good enough, or because we were hoping for more features from this update?

ChrisDuncan wrote:

Most of the feedback on 3.02 has been various shades of disappointment. Is that because the aftertouch fix still isn't good enough, or because we were hoping for more features from this update?

The how is as important as the what. I think this update would have been better received if there would have been better communication. For example in the release notes themselves.

This is particularly important for this update because (a) there is a long history about aftertouch and (b) it is still a mystery to me what this update contains beyond the aftertouch changes.

Note that the Fantom-0 received a similar update, however, without the aftertouch changes. So, there seems to be something important beyond aftertouch. And I find it odd that they released it with these release notes.

For aftertouch: Given the long history, and the failed attempt to fix it with v2.00 in Sep 2020, it would again make a huge difference if there would be more words about the changes.

ChrisDuncan wrote:

osflaa wrote:

I did a quick test with my Fantom 6. I set aftertouch sensitivity to 60% and pressure range to 10 and recorded aftertouch modulation to the sequencer. I managed to make a nice linear curve between min and max now.

This sounds like it's a significant improvement for aftertouch, something that people have been wanting for quite some time now.

Most of the feedback on 3.02 has been various shades of disappointment. Is that because the aftertouch fix still isn't good enough, or because we were hoping for more features from this update?

I don't know how well the aftertouch-update works on Fantom 8 which has a different keybed, but it works good enough on my Fantom 6.

I assume the disappointment is because some people expected a major 3.5/4-update but got a 3.02 maintenance-update. It has been some major updates since this synth was released, they have added a lot of value to the synth. So I do not 'demand' more functionality, but any bugs should be sorted out. I see added functionality more like a bonus now. But if there is a major update in the near future, there will be complaints anyway. Some because peoples favourite features are not included, some because the features are implemented in a way people don't like. And if parts of the update cost money, there will be a lot of complaints about that. Let's see what they announce in november :-)

xp30 wrote:

For aftertouch: Given the long history, and the failed attempt to fix it with v2.00 in Sep 2020, it would again make a huge difference if there would be more words about the changes.

I agree on this. A non/bad-functioning aftertouch is simply unacceptable for a synth in this price range and should have been a high priority right from the start.

This update certainly improves the aftertouch on my Fantom 7by setting the range to 10 in the system settings. However when I switch my machine back on, the value is saved in system settings but doesn't have any affect unless I reset the value again - really strange. Anyone else noticed this?

SImon G wrote:

This update certainly improves the aftertouch on my Fantom 7by setting the range to 10 in the system settings. However when I switch my machine back on, the value is saved in system settings but doesn't have any affect unless I reset the value again - really strange. Anyone else noticed this?

Have not bothered yet, and after reading your post I most probably never will.

😀😀😀😀
🎹🎹🎹🎹

SImon G wrote:

This update certainly improves the aftertouch on my Fantom 7by setting the range to 10 in the system settings. However when I switch my machine back on, the value is saved in system settings but doesn't have any affect unless I reset the value again - really strange. Anyone else noticed this?

Same here, it must be a bug. THIS is disappointing. A new firmware version with only one little new feature which is not properly tested :-( Can you report this to Roland support?