Best piano for Fantom-0 ?

I used the Complete Piano Expansion back in the days with my old Fantom-XA. Used it for several years for my live band. It is in fact a superb Piano.
Now with the Fantom-0 I choose to go with the AP2 (Classic Brilliant 2) for most of my Scenes.
I was comparing these two Pianos for many hours. They are both great in its own way. I only felt a little tired of the Superb Grand, as I was using it for many years already and with the new Fantom-0 I wanted to have something new.

By the way, in the meantime I tried the Acoustic Piano 2 expansion at several concerts. I was not very happy. In my Rockband on one side it cut through the mix but somehow on the other side it didn’t really found its place in the mix and just sounded not right. I reprogrammed all my scenes to EXZ013 with what I have many years of positive experiences.

Thanks for your comments and evaluation of the pianos available for the Fantom-0. I've often heard that some pianos work better in the mix in a live setting, and you won't know for sure until you hear it "in the wild." I have noticed that some pianos that work great for solos don't layer or intermingle well with other sounds like strings, brass, and EP's.

I'm mostly a home studio player / composer, and for me at least one solid, realistic acoustic piano for soloing is a must. I'm not sure if a third-party or custom sampled piano is a viable option for the Fantom-0, given that the 256Mb shared memory is also used by expansion packs and models.

I'm on the sideline right now regarding the Fantom-0. My current 15-year-old workstation keyboard still works fine from a musical perspective, it's just long in the tooth and a bit clumsy in workflow and slow from a technological perspective. I'm someone who bought into and made work the concept that a single keyboard can do everything without the need for any additional instruments, external devices, or a computer.

But I'm always on the lookout for a newer generation replacement should it ever go belly-up. With a self-imposed budget of under $2000 for 88 keys, the Fantom-0 looks intriguing, though there are some bugs and issues that need to be ironed out. Also the polyphony consumption might be a problem (dealbreaker) for me, as I would often need to use the Fantom-0 in a multitimbral mode.

After the initial post-release kinks are worked out, I'll be able to make a better evaluation whether the Fantom-0 might be a good fit for me. Kudos to the early adopters who are giving the Fantom-0 a good shakedown, to which Roland will hopefully respond with bug fixes and updates.

I got my O6 last week, and while im getting to love it, i couldn't find a piano that could replace my MODX one.
Ive tried most of them, and find a lot of them are not what im looking for.
I have settled on one called Piano 1. This is a Zen Core tone. Its also t identical to the one im using on my MODX so quite happy with that.

Id have assumed the SA ones would be top notch, but for me most just sound flat and dead.

Remember there is a lot of subjective involved here. For each person that doesn't like Roland pianos, there is another that totally love them and deemed them better than the Yamaha o Korg ones.

Dave.bass5 wrote:

I got my O6 last week, and while im getting to love it, i couldn't find a piano that could replace my MODX one.
Ive tried most of them, and find a lot of them are not what im looking for.
I have settled on one called Piano 1. This is a Zen Core tone. Its also t identical to the one im using on my MODX so quite happy with that.

Id have assumed the SA ones would be top notch, but for me most just sound flat and dead.

The beauty of a synth is that you can create your own tones.

I barely use any as is, as for a reason or another altering it turns a must do.

Check also your hearing level, as many tones, such brass and strings, come to live as loudness is increased.
Never go above 85 dB.

FGM wrote:

Dave.bass5 wrote:

I got my O6 last week, and while im getting to love it, i couldn't find a piano that could replace my MODX one.
Ive tried most of them, and find a lot of them are not what im looking for.
I have settled on one called Piano 1. This is a Zen Core tone. Its also t identical to the one im using on my MODX so quite happy with that.

Id have assumed the SA ones would be top notch, but for me most just sound flat and dead.

The beauty of a synth is that you can create your own tones.

I barely use any as is, as for a reason or another altering it turns a must do.

Check also your hearing level, as many tones, such brass and strings, come to live as loudness is increased.
Never go above 85 dB.

Most definitely, but you do need to know what to adjust and have an idea of where you want to end up. Not always easy with natural sounds IMO.
I have no issues with synth/brass/strings etc, but with Piano im more a find a close enough tone and try and make it somehow to my liking. With the SA piano’s being sample based (i think), its not quite as easy as for me to change the sound.

I Should add, i dont use any of the Yamaha CFX type of Piano’s either. I go for something that just sounds good in the mix. I know 100% the Fantom has it, and considering its taken me almost 2 years to settle with the MODX one im sure ill get there with the O6 sooner rather than later.

Two years to grab MODX/Montage seems a very good mark indeed.
It is 31 months with my Fantom and I deeply understand you.
Comparing, Fantom is piece of cake.
As for Supernatural voicing, not much to dig there.

FGM wrote:

Dave.bass5 wrote:

I got my O6 last week, and while im getting to love it, i couldn't find a piano that could replace my MODX one.
Ive tried most of them, and find a lot of them are not what im looking for.
I have settled on one called Piano 1. This is a Zen Core tone. Its also t identical to the one im using on my MODX so quite happy with that.

Id have assumed the SA ones would be top notch, but for me most just sound flat and dead.

The beauty of a synth is that you can create your own tones.

You can't really create your own piano tones out of the board's synth capabilities, you're pretty much limited to modifying what's there, or finding other samples. In terms of what's there, the SA (SuperNATURAL Acoustic) ones are only minimally editable, and even the rest of them, while more editable, will never really lose many aspects of the original sample. Meaning that if something isn't at least somewhat close to a piano sound you like, I wouldn't count on being able to get what you really want out of it. Options:

... remember that, besides the standard SuperNATURAL Acoustic and ZEN-Core pianos, there are also some pianos available in the EZX expansions that you can try.

... you can take advantage of the Fantom's strong MIDI controller functions to integrate a piano from some external source. There are some nice pianos you can add via an iPad, for example.

... it may be possible to convert soundfont samples, see http://forums.rolandclan.com/viewtopic.php?p=321518

... If there's a piano sound you like in another keyboard you have, you may be able to sample it and bring it into the Fantom, but sampling a piano is not for the faint of heart, especially when available sampling memory is limited.

There are also some inherent limitations to sampled pianos on the Fantom... they are limited to 4 velocity layers, and I don't believe there is a way to implement string resonances.

It all greatly depends on your purpose.

Solo instrument ? Every nuance will be discovered.
Hear the player breathing ?

Full orchestra ? Not much to worry, many smartphones vibrating with nobody noticing.

Mmmm... I have to add that ( . . . - - . . .) to a partial here....The SMS partial.

anotherscott2022 wrote:

FGM wrote:

Dave.bass5 wrote:

I got my O6 last week, and while im getting to love it, i couldn't find a piano that could replace my MODX one.
Ive tried most of them, and find a lot of them are not what im looking for.
I have settled on one called Piano 1. This is a Zen Core tone. Its also t identical to the one im using on my MODX so quite happy with that.

Id have assumed the SA ones would be top notch, but for me most just sound flat and dead.

The beauty of a synth is that you can create your own tones.

You can't really create your own piano tones out of the board's synth capabilities, you're pretty much limited to modifying what's there, or finding other samples. In terms of what's there, the SA (SuperNATURAL Acoustic) ones are only minimally editable, and even the rest of them, while more editable, will never really lose many aspects of the original sample. Meaning that if something isn't at least somewhat close to a piano sound you like, I wouldn't count on being able to get what you really want out of it. Options:

... remember that, besides the standard SuperNATURAL Acoustic and ZEN-Core pianos, there are also some pianos available in the EZX expansions that you can try.

... you can take advantage of the Fantom's strong MIDI controller functions to integrate a piano from some external source. There are some nice pianos you can add via an iPad, for example.

... it may be possible to convert soundfont samples, see http://forums.rolandclan.com/viewtopic.php?p=321518

... If there's a piano sound you like in another keyboard you have, you may be able to sample it and bring it into the Fantom, but sampling a piano is not for the faint of heart, especially when available sampling memory is limited.

There are also some inherent limitations to sampled pianos on the Fantom... they are limited to 4 velocity layers, and I don't believe there is a way to implement string resonances.

Yeah, that all makes sense. As ive said, i like the one called Piano 1, and its close to what im used to with the MODX so the two are interchangeable.
At the moment im looking at all this the wrong way. The Fantom isn’t replacing the MODX, so i doesn’t need to have this sound on the Fantom, its just that i was going through the Fantom to see how it matches up. Im very used to how the MODX sounds, but really loving how the Fantom sounds, and in some ways its better. Less processed and more in your face, which will work well along side the MODX. Took me almost 2 years to get used to how the MODX sounds through a PA. Took me one rehearsal with the Fantom. It sits much better in the mix IMO.

I got the Fantom to get away from using the iPad. I have been using AUM with Pure Piano, B-3X, and a few vintage synths. Just got fed up with all the leads and extra stuff i had to set up. Very happy with wha ti was getting, but i prefer the neater approach i have now.

FGM wrote:

Two years to grab MODX/Montage seems a very good mark indeed.
It is 31 months with my Fantom and I deeply understand you.
Comparing, Fantom is piece of cake.
As for Supernatural voicing, not much to dig there.

Yeah. SN tones are ok i guess, but to my ears the Fantom excels at exactly what got Roland noticed. Those bit fat synths and all those 80’s sounds.

Dave.bass5 wrote:

The Fantom isn’t replacing the MODX, so i doesn’t need to have this sound on the Fantom, its just that i was going through the Fantom to see how it matches up.

I see. I'm in a similar situation. I really like my Fantom-07, but since I'm always using it over either a Kurzweil or Yamaha, I don't use it for pianos/EPs, and so am not bothered by the fact that it doesn't have pianos/EPs I like as much. Its strengths are in other areas, and that's okay.

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