Using the Integra7 as a drum brain

YES! it is possible...

Then Integra 7 has

- 26 SuperNatural drum kit (incl 5 perc menus)
- 14 PCM drum kit
- 9 GM2 drum kit (general Midi PCM)
- 79 drum kits from SRX-01
- Many drum kits taken from the 11 other SRX Expansion
- And some other exotic drum's related sounds in the GM2 bank: Steel drums, Woodblocks, Castagnets ...

Any of those could be assigned to a keyboard or pads on just about any midi pad controller. Of course there's a bit of midi programming needed for the pad controller.

Just download the Integra 7 sound list manual from Roland to see them all.


LA

That's cool.

Any recommendations? I was looking at the Roland TD 4KP

The roland to 4kp will certainly work as you can control external instrument from it (see page 38 of the manual). I just think that this is a little much since it has it has its own built-in sounds that you will not use if you connect it to the Integra 7.

What you really need is just the pads, but it seems to me that those are not transmitting midi directly. You then need their controller, which is probably an expensive piece of the kit.

It would be probably cheaper if you could find a drum kit that is only transmitting midi. I don't know much about what is currently available and cannot help much beyond that. Maybe a trip to the nearest music store would help?

In any case you just need something that could transmit midi to your Integra 7, and of course something that you will enjoy playing on.

LA

Pretty much every e-kit uses a brain / module of some sort to translate the electrical impulses (usually created by piezzo transducers) sent from the pads.

Other than buying a kit with a brain, the other obvious choice might be a multi-pad, all-in-one sort of instrument. Roland has made 'em for years. Just Google "electronic percussion pad".

Thats exactly what Im doing. Any used controller multipad will do but Alternate Mode's Hybrikit (or Jamkat) blows everything else away hands down. The Hybrikit has 10 FSR pad zones and plugs into the DITI (controller only / no sounds) which is MIDIed to the Integra basically. Definately the most powerful and comprehensive pad / controller setup available - starting with 1024 increments of dynamics (not to mention 32 layers per pad, velocity switching, sustain or choke by pressing the pad, pad linking, etc. Bought the Hybrikit, DITI, and their custom waterproof hardshell case for around $1300 US. Just like anything, there is a learning curve involved. There is plenty of info on their website as well as on Youtube. Good luck on your quest - now back to sorting drum partials on the Integra for my snare library

I used to use the Integra-7 as a e-drum kit sound module to upgrade the sounds of a TD-6 kit before I bought a TD-30 back then, it worked great, the sounds were good, the only problem was the hi-hat, it has no articulation on the Integra-7, it's either opened or closed, nothing in between. If this doesn't bother you, it's fine as a drum module for an e-kit.

By the way don't get fooled by the hype and the marketing, Roland did an awful job with the TD-50, and anything deriving from that, it's actually much worse than the TD-30, which is the best Roland drum brain to the day. (Actually, the "good old" Roland died in 2012 when the owner sold its shares to the management, who decided to go conquer the growing middle class of the Third World instead of keeping investing in R&D. That's why there are so many mediocre Roland stuff since then, and no real R&D but onlt rebranding/re-purposing/Renaming of old tech. The Integra-7 and such epoch Roland products are the last of their generation. And as of 2020 you still have basically the same tech deriving from that in their new products, and nothing really new - except maybe ACB. See all their products line, not a thing that really transcends the pinnacle of the pre 2012 era.) Specifically, the TD-50 has a miserable (hush! it's a dirty secret!) 256Mb compressed sample memory size - the Pearl/Steven Slate Mimic Pro drum module, released same year as the TD-50, comes with a 100+Gb samples librairy on SSD, same price as the TD-50 module, see what I mean? For the pads themselves however, Roland still rock, unless you go the DIY route which isn't hard (piezo soldering really isn't science rocket at all..) But there are alternatives nowadays, ATV, 2Box, Jobekky, and what not. Roland kits are extremely sturdy and reliable, so as long as the snare and toms have nylon head, you can get a second hand kit, you won't regret it - as long as it's priced for what it is : a practice set.

And about the TD-30, there's an easy midi loopback trick to use the extra the percussion kit of the TD-30 to double snare, dassdrum, toms, etc, to thicken the sound like you would do in a studio job, or to make china and complex cymbals. And it's a shame it got censored on the vdrums.com forum (where you have to ask about details, it's THE specialized place for edrumming). On the Integra-7, you can layer drums much more easily, so that only applies to the drum modules with a percussion set (all of them basically can benefit this loopback trick if they have MIDI IN and OUT)

You need an e-drum brain though, try and an Trigger IO, it's a simple trigger module, around 100$ new or second hand, it's good enough to hook up to the Integra-7 via MIDI. Lots of configuring etc., but once set, it's not bad at all.

Last word, not sure the TD-4 has MIDI out over DIN, it's required to use it with the Integra-7, otherwise you'd have to use the MIDI over USB, which defeats the idea of a drum brain, since you can get so much better drum sounds and expression with drum software like Toontrack's or BFD. Check it out, MIDI DIN out on TD-4?

We're on the same wavelength for sure! I'm super serious about having the best gear in my old age without dragging around a laptop and the Mimic Pro seems to be more flexible (outputs, sounds, mics/effects, response, etc.) than the ATV ad5. Trying to compare that now to the GEWA drum module to see how it stacks up against the Mimic but can't seem to get much info or reviews on it. Hoping there will be some videos and reviews on it from Winter NAMM 2020. I'm ok with Roland's ROMpler style PCM-D drum samples in the Integra(with one-shot setting off, WMT Velocity Range Upper wide open, &TVA Env Time 4 wide open LOL) . No tweaks to the SN-D samples other than turning Variation to tje OFF position and turning down the keyboard mod wheel because I can do flams and rolls with sticks. I may have to turn off MOD completely in channel 10 reception but going to see what happens by not sending modulation from the DITI in the first place. That way I can still use mod for switching levels of open / close hihat or possible cymbal chokes / swells. I've seen positive reviews on Integra percussion sounds but haven't checked them myself yet. Going to stick with my real hi-hats long term but am interested in checking out the ATV 14's (and their e-cymbal line) compared to Roland hats (CY-13?). I am also curious about Roland's new snare / ride upgrade pack if they can be bought without the rest of the pads and module. As far as tom pads I'm SUPER interested in the FSR dual zones that both Alternate Zone (Hybripads) and Aquarian (On-heads) are making (mind blown). I'm going to stick with the Hybrikit / D.I.T.I. combo I have as my controller setup. Nothing comes close as far as programming power / flexability, cross-fading, note stacking (40 notes/sounds), and 1024 levels of dynamic sensativity - and that's only mentioning a few features! Haven't yet started researching e-kick pads yet but Alternate Mode's shark style kick pedal has my attention because of the DITI but what really blows my mind is their shark style hihat pedal that sends out 256 levels of continuous controller info along with the 1024 levels of velocity! Beginning to wonder that it's the best e-hat on the market

Of course, 1024 or 256 levels of dynamic sensitivity will be quantised into 128 for the Integra or any other MIDI-duty scenario.

Now that MIDI 2.0 is officially launched, we will see more of this 1024 or even much more MIDI dynamic levels, but here's the reality check : I bet you to even produce more than 15 distinguishable levels of dynamics on an acoustic hi-hat, or any kind of instrument. Oh you can? 16? 17? 25? Oh I see, and you have to suffer all this music writing system which allows for Beethoven but cannot support your delicacy, that must be painful, I mean, imagine the autistic genius out there who can distinguish among 35 levels of dynamics!

..

Yeah, the 1024 levels of dynamics on the FSR pads is 'scaled' on a incline against 127 in the Integra for sure. Same with the hat 256 to 127 scaled. But it does show me that their products are forward thinking to the future. Gotta wonder if they are planning a sound module down the line to read that stuff otherwise what would be the point in designing a controller to do that? You are correct lol no one will ever be able to hear the difference! I would be overjoyed if I could get 6 to 8 different position samples of hat open and close to scale to 127 dynamics! On Integra each drum sound has 4 partials you can layer (so 8 partials in 2 drum sounds to accomplish) - surely they can velocity crossfade. Finding realistic sounds of various states of open and close might be the only issue. Looking forward to that experiment but currently have bigger fish to fry. I absolutely ADORE my real hats!

In the Supernatural drum sounds in the Integra-7, there's no way to articulate the hihat opening, the physical samples are not there. But closed and opened hihat sounds are well articulated themselves in their range, no audible sample layering, no sign of a discrepancy in the entire velocity range of these elements, it's just that it's not meant to respond to the e-hihat pedal opening, the #cc involved is not mapped to any change in the opening.

Other Integra-7 Supernatural drum sounds have no articulation at all : snares and toms for instance have rimshot sounds, but they aren't articulated at all, it's only on/off, and that makes a huge difference in play-ability with the TD-30 for instance, where there are hardware rim sounds, hardware+rimshot sounds, and they all interact with each others and with the playing. In comparison, the Integra-7 hosts some of the TD-30 sound flavor (no machingunning on the snares for instance, and some tones are adapted from the TD-30 SN sounds), but they remain GM style drumkits.

For snares and toms (except that I-7 toms have no hardware shell noises and they are none in the entire module to layer/crossfade etc.), it's ok because you can assign rimshots to the rim and plain shots to the head and it's just fine. For cymbals you can refine and assign velocity crossfades to simulate the bell and various crashes (I liked to have as much sound variety as I could on cymbals, so used fine programming to maximize that and it was efficient), and layer kicks as well, and even simulate the brushes quite convincingly, but for the hihat it was problematic as nothing was doable at all, it was only opened or closed (with action of the pedal of course, but no half opened nor any of the hihat opening ability. That was the major issue using the I-7 as a MIDI drum module for an e-drum kit.

And the PCM sounds were no consolation to that, they sound totally otherwordly to the Supernatural drumsounds in the I-7, so much that even if you could craft a skilled velocity crossfade hihat using PCM sounds on several channels, it would not integrate at all with the SN drumkit.

When you play the TD-30 kits on the keyboard in contrary, you realize all its richness in articulations, resonances of all sorts, even on PCM kits on the TD-30 (those who are in the TD-12 as well), it's leaps ahead from the GM style drum kits on the Integra-7. That's why in the end, it's better to make it very clear : the I-7 drum sounds, especially the SN ones, are very good, and they can be played via an e-drum kit satisfyingly (if you accept you can't half open the hihat) and even with some great refinement to a very satisfying level, but it's nowhere as good and expressive as a proper drum module or sampler.

I was satisfied with the I-7 played from an old TD-6 kit, for about 6 months. It allowed me not to use the computer and the SD2 copy I had back then, it was good enough so that I didn't need that to practice, but as soon as I could find a second hand TD-30 kit, I jumped on it, sold the TD-6, and never looked back at the I-7 as a drum module (nor did I ever went back to the SD2 or even SD3). The TD-30 is that good an expressive drum brain, it sounds somewhat "Roland synthetic" yes indeed, but it blends incredibly well in a context, and played alone, it's more expressive and subtle than SD, BFD, Slate drums, and other software solutions. And it has been so for nearly 5 years now, I never considered upgrading it, every time I switch it on, it's there, as good as in day one.

This is why I wouldn't suggest purchasing the I-7 for e-drumming.

I kept the I-7 however for my primary use of it : its SN pianos, although they don't have strong pedal string resonance, are the only ones I can play everyday for practice on my old Kawai silent upright piano keyboard without getting bored with the sound. I tried about anything else, but it's the only piano that behaves properly, sounds good enough to motivate to practice and play without getting lured by the sound too beautiful to be true, and sounds spot on perfectly in a context. Other I-7 are great, but alas the internal digital mixer of the I-7 is not very good, and you end up with mud when you start layering sounds or mixing inside of it (it has 8 outputs though so it's something you can work around), but its pianos are really the best I could find in a hardware module. Yes I'm still basically stuck with the sound n°1 in this module, since day one, it has 6000+ other patches I only rarely browse, and I'm not nearly close to begin being fep up with it, isn't something this I-7?!!

Sorry for the long development, but again, I-7 for MIDI drum module yes it works and offers great sounds, but no it can't replace a proper dedicated drum module of software because it lacks articulations that cannot be replaced (hihat).

Now if someone proved me wrong about the hihat articulation in the I-7, I would be very happy to learn that, and I would have no problem admitting I was wrong and congratulating the hihat I-7 champion, so don't be shy about it if the case!

Beautiful post - thank you. That loopback SN trick sounds incredibly interesting - you should be very proud indeed. Hoping to try that someday down the line. The side by side comparison to TD-30 is awesome too. So to reiterate your first point, theres no way to affect articulation in the Imtegra SN hi-hat with continous controller assigned to modulation?

I don't see how it would work, but you might have more imagination than I did back then, you should try to get a modwheel to modulate hihat sounds opening, that would be a good start ;)

But maybe I was unclear about this : the hihat pedal works with the I-7, if you press the pedal you get closed hihat, and opened if left untouched, and you get the "foot chick" too (in a GM keyboard MIDI drum kit there's traditionally opened hh, closed hh, and "foot chick"), it's only that you don't get anything between opened and closed, it's on/off only. For basic drumming it's ok, but it's a pity.

You are correct lol. If the hat pedal only has footswitch and trigger out then you only get open / close for footswitch and splash for trigger. But if it has CNTRL out it will send continuos controller. This is an old KAT pedal from back in the day and the new pedal brags to be much better but I will try to use this first before I shell out more money for the newer one