Fantom semi -weighted keys. aftertouch unusable

30 Dec 2019, 18:04

I know it's been covered in other threads that the 88 weighted after touch is unusable... I have the 76 key semi weighted and that's also unusable... a lot of the patches I've been doing lately I've been assigning the sliders for various duties but they seem inaccurate when you try to use them for fast modulation. Doesn't pay back the same. Even with quantize off when recording... anyway back to after touch has anyone tried semi-weighted AFT yet it's absolutely unusable it's all or nothing I feel like I'm going to break a key or a finger.. I've gone into system settings and adjusted the sensitivity of the after touch that defaults at 100 which is Max but at any setting it's still the same all or nothing and if you attempt this with your pinky your definitely snap it. so hard to get anything out of it... hope this is a software issue likewise with the sliders trying to record fast movement
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Re: Fantom semi -weighted keys. aftertouch unusable

30 Dec 2019, 19:31

The biggest issue is that patches were imported from previous instruments without any attention to realign the touch response for the new keybed. I am having no trouble getting good results with my own patches, but the factory patches are really a mixed bag.

Re: Fantom semi -weighted keys. aftertouch unusable

30 Dec 2019, 19:44

will that's good news if you're getting good results maybe I'm going wrong somewhere as I said I've tried various modulation settings subtle and hard... and it's with my own patches.. this is the first time I've used after touch though having some issues recording fast movement with sliders... just not too sure where else to look as I said tried adjusting sensitivity in system settings of the after touch and moderate to hard settings om modulation destinations.. but still all or nothing... I'll give it another go tomorrow... what parameters are you modulating on your patches...

Re: Fantom semi -weighted keys. aftertouch unusable

30 Dec 2019, 21:01

i gave it another go tonight. I'm not going wrong anywhere all the settings that relate to after touch and mod routine I've been through. and find some of the factory patches with aftertouch assigned. and between them and my patches... it's the same it's a fight to get any after touch to modulate anything out the key bed... would really appreciate feedback from other users on this..

Re: Fantom semi -weighted keys. aftertouch unusable

31 Dec 2019, 12:22

Same problem here. If anyone knows how to get good aftertouch let us know. I have too press super hard too get any response, what am I missing in settings?

Re: Fantom semi -weighted keys. aftertouch unusable

31 Dec 2019, 13:41

flowerkings wrote:
Same problem here. If anyone knows how to get good aftertouch let us know. I have too press super hard too get any response, what am I missing in settings?

Thank you for replying... I've searched all the related settings to get a smooth and responsive after touch.... I've been programming synths for many years.... but i just can't get the damn thing to give me anything usable I'm worried applying that amount of stress to the keys, definitely not good... appreciate all the replies. and thank you in advance I hope this is just a software issue....

Re: Fantom semi -weighted keys. aftertouch unusable

31 Dec 2019, 14:20

the only modulation sources I can get super accurate results from is the mod wheels, assignable knobs or the pitch bend /Y position on joystick really happy with those but everything else is off sliders can't keep up with any moderate or fast movement
and after touch well as I said above....

Re: Fantom semi -weighted keys. aftertouch unusable

31 Dec 2019, 15:07

johnb8897 wrote:
... what parameters are you modulating on your patches...

I tend to go for the typical filter-cutoff and vibrato/pitch-modulation. I'll try to find time to do a video on this. I admit that structuring it to be concise enough to be of use might be impossible, as I tend to experiment a lot and just noodle around tweaking parameters until I get it right. I don't want to post a 45-minute video, lol.

Re: Fantom semi -weighted keys. aftertouch unusable

1 Jan 2020, 13:02

zombietactics wrote:
johnb8897 wrote:
... what parameters are you modulating on your patches...
I tend to go for the typical filter-cutoff and vibrato/pitch-modulation. I'll try to find time to do a video on this. I admit that structuring it to be concise enough to be of use might be impossible, as I tend to experiment a lot and just noodle around tweaking parameters until I get it right. I don't want to post a 45-minute video, lol.

modulating cut-off frequency really shows how unusable it is.

Re: Fantom semi -weighted keys. aftertouch unusable

2 Jan 2020, 04:14

If you have access to a DAW you can troubleshoot the problem further.

On the 8 recording a track with AT automation recording enables results in clear 0% - 100% and back jumps with no interim values. It just takes so much pressure than when you get there it jumps all the way then there’s no human means to maintain the value at anything in-between the two most of the time.

This occurs because it is calibrated (either in software or physically by the keyboards design) to have an aftertouch “dead zone” that is far too large between key down and aftertouch engagement. When you finally do hit a pressure level that engages aftertouch there’s no additional range to use so it just slams on.

Re: Fantom semi -weighted keys. aftertouch unusable

2 Jan 2020, 05:30

Per wrote:
If you have access to a DAW you can troubleshoot the problem further.

On the 8 recording a track with AT automation recording enables results in clear 0% - 100% and back jumps with no interim values. It just takes so much pressure than when you get there it jumps all the way then there’s no human means to maintain the value at anything in-between the two most of the time.

This occurs because it is calibrated (either in software or physically by the keyboards design) to have an aftertouch “dead zone” that is far too large between key down and aftertouch engagement. When you finally do hit a pressure level that engages aftertouch there’s no additional range to use so it just slams on.

Yes DAW that's a good way to measure the keybed after touch, the input activity in Daw.. but I'm unable to do the whole integration fantom thing yet as I'm still using old 09 Mac Pro with Logic Pro... going to be upgrading to Pro X when I renew my Mac... I hope this can be sorted with a hardware calibration/ firmware update...

Last edited by johnb8897 on 2 Jan 2020, 08:53, edited 1 time in total.

Re: Fantom semi -weighted keys. aftertouch unusable

2 Jan 2020, 08:46

I do not use aftertouch. It's not good for my hands long term but I programmed a basic patch on my Fantom using AT. It's useless, basically. 0 or 100%

Re: Fantom semi -weighted keys. aftertouch unusable

2 Jan 2020, 10:24

Now that I've spent more time with the Fantom I have to agree that the AFT is not very usable. It is very close to all or nothing and it seems you can't adjust it for a lighter touch either.

I've had other keyboards where the aftertouch is too easy, but that was a more usable situation (don't press so hard!) and in all cases they were more modulatable.

The other issue is that there needs to be some time-filtering on the AFT signal. It needs to be smoothed. Most keyboard manufacturers do this, for example, on the pitch wheel. I suspect others do it on the AFT signal as well. It should ramp over 50 ms or maybe even slower to be usable. Ideally a keyboard would make this a per-tone/scene adjustable parameter.

I've been half-tempted to open up the Fantom and see if there are trim pots for the aftertouch. I've seen some keybeds that have 1 or 2 of those...

Mark

Re: Fantom semi -weighted keys. aftertouch unusable

2 Jan 2020, 20:41

I've been playing synths since 1991, and I couldn't care less about aftertouch on any synths I've owned or played. I personally don't find it musically useful at all.

Re: Fantom semi -weighted keys. aftertouch unusable

9 Jan 2020, 15:12

Chrisk-K wrote:
I've been playing synths since 1991, and I couldn't care less about aftertouch on any synths I've owned or played. I personally don't find it musically useful at all.

Cool story bro.

It was however a selling point of this keyboard, and others do find it useful including myself. Roland should make an effort to release things that work.