A sign of what's to come...

Looking at some of that patches they are mostly all Fantom X or SRX tones, not really ground breaking. I'm told that the first major release for Namm will be to have the Supernatural engine of the Integra and Jupiter 50/80 within the fantom.

I'd like to see the Jupiter X synth engines in there like the JP8 etc

skinmechanic wrote:

I'd like to see the Jupiter X synth engines in there like the JP8 etc

Then, Roland would have to charge $4,000 for the Fantom 6.

skinmechanic wrote:

Looking at some of that patches they are mostly all Fantom X or SRX tones, not really ground breaking. I'm told that the first major release for Namm will be to have the Supernatural engine of the Integra and Jupiter 50/80 within the fantom.

I'd like to see the Jupiter X synth engines in there like the JP8 etc

That would be to me the right time to switch from my FA to Fantom, together with the fully featured sequencer that should (hopefuly) come someday.

skinmechanic wrote:

Looking at some of that patches they are mostly all Fantom X or SRX tones, not really ground breaking. I'm told that the first major release for Namm will be to have the Supernatural engine of the Integra and Jupiter 50/80 within the fantom.

I'm really crossing my fingers and hoping that this is true.

skinmechanic wrote:

I'd like to see the Jupiter X synth engines in there like the JP8 etc

I know this is technically possible, as the guts are pretty close between the Fantom and Jupiter-X (The Jupiter seems to have a lower-capacity implementation of the same tech). Roland has a history of not quite getting it right though, sooooo we shall see.

The above improvements, plus rounding out the EXZ soundsets, plus a few sequencer improvements* ... this thing could be off the charts.

*
Length of Patterns needs to be increased to 128 or 256 bars.
We need 16 "groups" instead of 8.
A song should be able to use up to 128 (or more) steps.
Pads need a "clip/group launch" mode.
Linear sequencing of some kind should be possible.
Ideally, an additional 16 "external MIDI only" sequencer tracks should be available.

There’s still no dedicated decent EP or Tonewheel models, you still can’t delete or replace the inbuilt scenes or other patches, you can’t organize user patches into correct categories, there are no usable acoustic sounds, the v-piano is still hobbled, there’s no multisampling, you can’t copy/paste between scenes or zones, there’s no class compliant audio, the list goes on and on... a few additional libraries of preset tones and PCMs for another synth while nice isn’t highest on my own list of priorities and won’t fix any of this stuff that really should be base level at this price on a workstation.

PER why did you purchase a Fantom without researching what it currently can and cannot do? Then feel angry because it doesn’t do A,B or C etc? Makes no sense to me, research before spending thousands on an instrument.

theshine wrote:

PER why did you purchase a Fantom without researching what it currently can and cannot do? Then feel angry because it doesn’t do A,B or C etc? Makes no sense to me, research before spending thousands on an instrument.

I'm not going to be a "white knight" here, but I have a feeling that many buy a product with a certain kind of loose "It costs X$, my history with a brand/model product line implies certain characteristics", etc. idea in mind. It's not like the old days when local dealers stocked such things, and you could try them out in person. So, you sort of have to take the plunge and find out for yourself.

He hasn't engaged in some kind of "What?! it doesn't have some imaginary feature I desperately want?! IT's crap!" type of critcism. Agree with him or not (and I frequently do not), but his concerns are not entirely irrational. If anything, he's perhaps prone to expressing his opinion as though it were incontrovertible fact, but that's hardly unusual among artists and creatives, lol.


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I'm not saying that what he's expecting aren't features that would be great, but still think buying an expensive instrument without research by assuming is does this and that then complaining all over the internet about it is not REALLY roland's fault. I'm sure we all have our fingers crossed that Roland will update the Fantom with some mind blowing features soon.

theshine wrote:

... I'm sure we all have our fingers crossed that Roland will update the Fantom with some mind blowing features soon.

I'm really not expecting "mind blowing". I think the age of electronic instrument manufacturers releasing revolutionary technologies has passed. Honestly, almost everything has been evolutionary in nature since the late 1990s, IMHO. Is there something I am forgetting or failing to consider?

What is mindblowing about the Fantom is the workflow. They took the work out of the workstation. The rest will come it's been out 6 weeks?

theshine wrote:

PER why did you purchase a Fantom without researching what it currently can and cannot do? Then feel angry because it doesn’t do A,B or C etc? Makes no sense to me, research before spending thousands on an instrument.

Did I try to silence you? No. I am a customer of Roland and paid the price of entry, I think I can say what I want. My reasons for buying a Fantom are my own, just because you lack the imagination to figure them out isn’t really my problem. I would however like it to become a better product than it already is. As I said, those things I listed are my higher priorities.

Rocking the boat might scare you but the telepathic methods really don’t work and nice quiet private emails have an oh so easy tendency to be ignored. If you want change then public forums are the best way forward, and I want change. The Fantom belongs to a line of successful and fully featured synth workstations, it has heritage to live up to, it has lots of potential, but that potential has every danger of remaining untapped. I know how development can go.

Sound-packs on their own are a very... accountants way of delivering updates, they cost little and give the appearance of actual content and they will satisfy many. But they’re not going to address most of the issues I want to see fixed that would actually make meaningful change and improvement to the base product. I’m not alone either, I’ve seen enough people claim they want the full v-piano, user multiplayered sampling and the rest, both customers and potential customers. Frightening off people from stating what they want from the Fantom is only a disservice to Roland.

If all you want is some mediocre sound packs then good for you, you have already got what you want and it looks like the future will continue down that route, personally I want more. Why should I shut up about it just because you don’t? You can always ignore or skip my posts if they offend you, and if Roland listen to myself and others or even have already planned to do what’s asked for and you get additional free content with these features then you’ll still be winning.

Devnor wrote:

What is mindblowing about the Fantom is the workflow. They took the work out of the workstation. The rest will come it's been out 6 weeks?

It’s a very nice UI for sure. I hope they will continue to polish and improve it. Especially the partial selection stuff with the pads needs some finessing, copy/paste could be cleaned up, in pro mode sometimes the bottom soft knobs don’t correspond correctly to their columns, the soft button on the effect and oscillator selection areas could be improved to also select and close the dialog without having to use other controls etc.

It’s all stuff that I’m sure will be ironed out in due course.

Per wrote:

... you still can’t delete or replace the inbuilt scenes or other patches ...

You can initialize or overwrite any of the factory scenes. You can't delete the factory tones/patches, but you have 2000 Zen-Core User locations, and 128 User V-Piano locations ... which of course can be used for custom or original tones/patches.

zombietactics wrote:

Per wrote:

... you still can’t delete or replace the inbuilt scenes or other patches ...

You can initialize or overwrite any of the factory scenes. You can't delete the factory tones/patches, but you have 2000 Zen-Core User locations, and 128 User V-Piano locations ... which of course can be used for custom or original tones/patches.

Yes, but only 512 total scene memory locations--for both factory and user scenes. If you don't want to overwrite any of the factory scenes, you're left with only 240 slots. I've already got 60 of those filled converting some of my Performance setups on my X7 over to my 7. It would be very easy to expand it since they only use letters A-D and it's all touchscreen bank selection and not hard keys so adding another 22 banks of 128 (or more) would be child's play. It just seems weird to me that for a synth that emphasizes its main standout feature as scenes, they would include so few available slots out of the gate.

pianoman41 wrote:

zombietactics wrote:

Per wrote:

... you still can’t delete or replace the inbuilt scenes or other patches ...

You can initialize or overwrite any of the factory scenes. You can't delete the factory tones/patches, but you have 2000 Zen-Core User locations, and 128 User V-Piano locations ... which of course can be used for custom or original tones/patches.

Yes, but only 512 total scene memory locations--for both factory and user scenes. ...

Horses for courses I guess. I am just thinking of all the instruments I've owned, and presently own. I don't see 512 Scenes as much of a limitation.

There certainly is room in the Fantom for another few banks (E thru H?) I hope you get your wish.