Jupiter-X vs System 8

Well, since there is no real information on the moment we can only roughly speculate in my opinion.

My guess is Jupiter X will have Fantom synth engine.

mangepange wrote:

Can you roughly say that the Jupiter-X is, sound wise, a System 8 x4 + drums + RD pianos + XV5080 and a better keybed, but without sequencer and some knobs?

No. Here's what we actually know so far:

• The Jupiter-X uses "less processor intensive" emulations that are different from the ACB emulations in the System-8. The new emulations are an "alternative" to ACB.
• It supports 32 voices of analog emulation instead of 8, includes several other sound engines, has higher build quality and more connectivity, but the price isn't four times higher.
• Roland is still developing ACB emulations.

Some conclusions I think are easily drawn from the above:

• If the new emulations could achieve exactly the same level of accuracy and quality as ACB with significantly less computation, they would have positioned this as either the new version of ACB, or a next-generation technology that replaces it. They made it very clear this is an alternative approach.
• Unless Roland develops its products in silos (in which case they have much more serious problems as an organization), they would have used the new emulation technology in the JU-06A, which would have allowed them to overcome the four-voice limitation that everyone sees as a huge disappointment. The Jupiter-X includes a Juno-106 emulation, so it's not like they would have had to build that again from scratch for the JU-06A.

The big question is whether the differences between ACB and the new emulations are actually important to how they sound. My guess is they're close enough that a lot of people will prefer the versatility and higher polyphony of the Jupiter-X (which is why Roland created this product), but also different enough to justify keeping ACB around for people who value accurate emulations over everything else.

Devnor wrote:

My guess is Jupiter X will have Fantom synth engine.

Jupiter-X Specs
Sound Generator: ZEN-Core, Various MODEL sound generators

Fantom Series Specs
Sound Generator: ZEN-Core, V-Piano Technology

The proof is in the listening.

The Model engines in the Jupiter X will be different from what I have in my System 8 and MC707, but I suspect they will be all most everyone but a few scope peepers on YouTube trying to make a name for themselves could ever want out of analogue classics recreations, and then some.

The sound possibilities on the Zen Core+VA on the MC-707 are endless, and distinctive. The Jupiter will be even more so.

For me, they’ll make a far better combination than Fantom, as great as it looks.

No one will be able to tell the sound differences among ACB, Zen-Core model and even the real things in a mix.

Chrisk-K wrote:

No one will be able to tell the sound differences among ACB, Zen-Core model and even the real things in a mix.

That remains to be seen (heard), but personally I would assume Roland knows what they’re doing and that will probably be true. I can at least vouch that the ACB emulations are close enough to the real things in all but the most subtle ways.

I don't know man, Roland seems to always step on their own foot when they release products. Like you have the System 8 with all these "modeling" abilities but then you release the Jupiter-X which is going to "model" the same keyboards on the System 8 with apparently a stronger synth engine so it just makes owning a System 8 pointless (unless you just want a cloud controller).

That always ticks me off about Roland releases. They don't create a new space for a new product they just knock old products out their spot entirely and end up making what you just purchased pointless to own because the new version will do everything yours did but better. I was really looking forward to the Jupiter-X but now I'm kinda like I don't know. Seems like the same old Roland stuff in a Jupiter styled box. Too much "modeling" and not enough new sound innovation. How many HD versions of the 106 do you need?
It's so regurgitated in all of their products.

If they could just make a new synth with entirely new sounds we haven't heard before. This is what I'm personally anxious to see if the Jupiter X can do it but if it's using the same engine as the Fantom what would stop people from just creating similar patches on the Fantom?

Fourfiftyfour wrote:

but if it's using the same engine as the Fantom what would stop people from just creating similar patches on the Fantom?

We're all speculating but it would be huge if Fantom tones could be shared between Jupiter X and vice versa. I believe J-X will have features ie engines not available in Fantom. That's how they get us. I don't feel System 8 is "pointless" just because J-X is coming out next year.

If you want entirely new sounds we haven't heard before you should pony up for a Quantum. That was my next purchase before Fantom. I follow that synth I find it strange people are trying to create jupiter sounds on Quantum. Haven't they had enough? I sure have but it's still freaking cool to have a boat load of analog with massive poly on hand.

The Quantum sounds just OK to me. In contrast, the new Kyra sounds amazing with amazing specs. It sounds like the combination of the Virus on steroids and the best of all the classic Waldorf synths.

Fourfiftyfour wrote:

Like you have the System 8 with all these "modeling" abilities but then you release the Jupiter-X which is going to "model" the same keyboards on the System 8 with apparently a stronger synth engine so it just makes owning a System 8 pointless (unless you just want a cloud controller).

Nope. There’s a reason ACB is still a thing. I don’t doubt they’ve done a decent job getting “close enough” with the new lightweight emulations in the Jupiter-X, but for those of us who don’t want PCM sounds and value accurate emulations of analog synths above all else, the System-8 is still the better option. Roland isn’t positioning ZenCore as a successor or replacement for the System-8 or ACB because quite simply, it’s not.

Devnor wrote:

Fourfiftyfour wrote:

but if it's using the same engine as the Fantom what would stop people from just creating similar patches on the Fantom?

I don't feel System 8 is "pointless" just because J-X is coming out next year.

If you want entirely new sounds we haven't heard before you should pony up for a Quantum. That was my

I mean Roland is marketing it as this...

"Jupiter-X is equipped with Roland's latest cutting-edge sound engine, which not only can reproduce sought-after analog classics such as the Jupiter-8, Juno-106, and SH-101; but also vintage digital synths like the XV-5080 and today's RD pianos. Also onboard: an arsenal of Roland drum machines (including the TR-808, 909, 707, 727, 606, CR-78, and more) that are the cornerstones of electronic and dance music. The Jupiter-X is like a studio packed with vintage gear — but with modern capabilities and a deep, powerful synthesis engine that opens the portals to new sonic worlds."

Aside from the drum machines it's pretty much the same Jargon they used for the System 8. This Zen-Core is supposed to be more powerful than the ACB tech. Especially if it can model all those vintage drum machines as well. But the Jupiter XM does the same and it's out now already. It makes you scratch your head and wonder what's the role of the System 8 when this new powerful synth engine is offering the same sounds it does.

The other part about the Quantum is just kind of sad when you think about it. Roland has been stuck regurgitating the past for so long that they can't seem to create anything that's authentically new sound wise. While other manufacturers are doing so. What exactly is "Roland's" current sound? They're legends for synths and drum machines they haven't made in over 30 years and they keep chucking these digital versions of those synths at us. They remind me of Al Bundy and his Polk High tales like when will you stop talking about the past and move forward? I'm seriously hoping that the Jupiter X will have a "new" sound of it's own. For $2,500 We're well into Dave Smith territory. That Novation Summit is looking good and that new Waldorf Kyra is sounding amazing as well. So what's the Jupiter X have to offer that's going to pull me away from those other pieces of gear and purchase it for $2,500. I sure hope it's not the idea of playing new renditions of their vintage synths and drum machines for the 100th time.

I have all the boutiques, I have the TR8S, I mean how much "vintage" digital analog stuff can you throw at someone? How is this Jupiter X different from their other products. See that's what I mean by they step on the toes of their current offerings. If the Jupiter X has all the classic drum machines why buy a TR8S? If it has all the classic synths why purchase any of the boutiques? I even wondered that with the system 8. Roland is a very confusing company that lacks direction.

Stormchild wrote:

Fourfiftyfour wrote:

Like you have the System 8 with all these "modeling" abilities but then you release the Jupiter-X which is going to "model" the same keyboards on the System 8 with apparently a stronger synth engine so it just makes owning a System 8 pointless (unless you just want a cloud controller).

Nope. There’s a reason ACB is still a thing. I don’t doubt they’ve done a decent job getting “close enough” with the new lightweight emulations in the Jupiter-X, but for those of us who don’t want PCM sounds and value accurate emulations of analog synths above all else, the System-8 is still the better option. Roland isn’t positioning ZenCore as a successor or replacement for the System-8 or ACB because quite simply, it’s not.

It IS the successor. Aside from the Boutique the MC-707,Jupiter X, Jupiter Xm, and Fantom all use ZenCore. They're not going to tell you that ACB is obsolete when they still have old units using ACB they want to get rid of they just phase them out. When they're currently marketing to you a new synth engine that they feel confident enough to dump all their vintage synths into and drum machines says a lot about what Zen-Core can do. It be out of place if they said this is our latest cutting edge synth engine but it's not as good as our previous synth engine we designed but if you still want it you'll have to pay $2,500 to gain access to it. With Roland you always have to read between the lines. They're going to phase out ACB and that System 8 will be out of production in 2020 probably the JDX series too...and my God why don't they ever update the GAIA. You want something that could have used ACB or a ZENCORE it was the GAIA thing hasn't been updated since Obama first took office.

Fourfiftyfour wrote:

It IS the successor. Aside from the Boutique the MC-707,Jupiter X, Jupiter Xm, and Fantom all use ZenCore. They're not going to tell you that ACB is obsolete when they still have old units using ACB they want to get rid of they just phase them out. When they're currently marketing to you a new synth engine that they feel confident enough to dump all their vintage synths into and drum machines says a lot about what Zen-Core can do. It be out of place if they said this is our latest cutting edge synth engine but it's not as good as our previous synth engine we designed but if you still want it you'll have to pay $2,500 to gain access to it. With Roland you always have to read between the lines. They're going to phase out ACB and that System 8 will be out of production in 2020 probably the JDX series too...and my God why don't they ever update the GAIA. You want something that could have used ACB or a ZENCORE it was the GAIA thing hasn't been updated since Obama first took office.

The available info doesn't support your theory.