Possible new FA-07 user

You can send any of the 16 sequencer tracks via midi out to other devices, so yes, technically you could send chords to the BK7M and it then responds as it's job as arranger, and you can play on a totally different part on the FA.

You could probably record direct into the FA 'from' the arranger too, and then play over the sequence if you wanted to record a final performance on the FA. i.e. performance from MIDI channel 16 from the FA, and the arranger comes back in on channels 1-15.

How well they sync together would be my main concern, while they should co-exit without issues you can't always guarantee it.

I've never used a BK7M either, so this post is very much 'theoritically', so hopefully someone with real world experience can help you further.

Skijumptoes wrote:

You can send any of the 16 sequencer tracks via midi out to other devices, so yes, technically you could send chords to the BK7M and it then responds as it's job as arranger, and you can play on a totally different part on the FA.

You could probably record direct into the FA 'from' the arranger too, and then play over the sequence if you wanted to record a final performance on the FA. i.e. performance from MIDI channel 16 from the FA, and the arranger comes back in on channels 1-15.

How well they sync together would be my main concern, while they should co-exit without issues you can't always guarantee it.

I've never used a BK7M either, so this post is very much 'theoritically', so hopefully someone with real world experience can help you further.

Skijumptoes,

Hey, you know, I do happen to have a BK7M. You have some great ideas. When I bought my V-Grand, it was on sale during the store's annual warehouse piano sale. I have never seen the V-Grand at that sale before or since, so I hit it right and got $10,000 off on it. At the same time, I got the BK7M almost as a package deal, really cheap. I don't see either of these going used for any less than I paid new.

I never really gave the BK7M much attention other than playing with it a bit. I just got it at the time because it was a good deal and a pittance compared to the V-Grand. Now, you are providing me with ideas to dig it out and really make use of it. :)

Tony

Skijumptoes wrote:

You can send any of the 16 sequencer tracks via midi out to other devices, so yes, technically you could send chords to the BK7M and it then responds as it's job as arranger, and you can play on a totally different part on the FA.

You could probably record direct into the FA 'from' the arranger too, and then play over the sequence if you wanted to record a final performance on the FA. i.e. performance from MIDI channel 16 from the FA, and the arranger comes back in on channels 1-15.

How well they sync together would be my main concern, while they should co-exit without issues you can't always guarantee it.

I've never used a BK7M either, so this post is very much 'theoritically', so hopefully someone with real world experience can help you further.

Thanks.
So I would need 2 midi cables (in/out) to do this which is what I thought. I think the two would get along with each other as both are Rolands and both are midi devices of a similar sort. Of course figuring out exactly what I would need to do will be the trick. The book on the BK7M is very complete, but also very confusing in all too many places, Heck of a band in a box though!

I'm a bit tossed about which workstation to get. I like Roland gear a lot and the videos I've watched didn't leave me scratching my head much, so that's a plus. But in the back of my mind I wonder if the Korg Krome wouldn't be a better choice because of voices being somewhat different, and the touch screen has a certain allure.

But then the FA-x has a sweet screen and those 16 pads on the right seem to be a big plus too.

Where's a local dealer with stock when you really need them? Definitely not down here in the far southern rural town!! :)

thanks guys.

lparsons21 wrote:

I'm a bit tossed about which workstation to get. I like Roland gear a lot and the videos I've watched didn't leave me scratching my head much, so that's a plus. But in the back of my mind I wonder if the Korg Krome wouldn't be a better choice because of voices being somewhat different, and the touch screen has a certain allure.

But then the FA-x has a sweet screen and those 16 pads on the right seem to be a big plus too.

Where's a local dealer with stock when you really need them? Definitely not down here in the far southern rural town!! :)

thanks guys.

A couple of things...if you connect the midi in and out of the two devices directly (i.e. midi in on one to midi out on the other and vice-versa), be sure that neither device has midi-thru enabled. I would have to check, but some keyboards and midi devices allow you to enable a form of midi thru internally, in which anything coming to the device via midi in gets sent directly to midi out. In such a direct setup, you would cause an unwanted midi loop, causing you to hear all sorts of weird things such as doubled notes.

Regarding the keyboards, I have personally tended to prefer the sounds of Roland over Korg. Both are good, so it is personal choice. I am not familiar with the operation of the Korg keyboards, but can tell you that in my experience with both Yamaha and Roland keyboards, the FA series is the easiest, by far, to work with. for whatever reason, Roland seemed to really focus on ease of use with this keyboard so you don't have to be diving into manuals all the time.

Tony

Thanks Tony,

As it turns out I would only need one midi cable as the communication via midi is one way, to the BK7M to tell it what to do. Audio wise it would be 2 sets of cables. From BK to FA to my Lowrey organ for its audio amp and speakers. Don't know if the FA will pass through like that but if not then FA to BK to Lowrey as I know the BK will do that.

Further reading is leading me more to the FA as well as the many videos I'm nearly burned out watching! :)

The FA-6/7/8 have a beautiful color screen, can record samples and will work with DAW software, and has that Axial site for official downloads. It also has USB host and remote. I also have fallen in love with the videos showing lots of use of the 16 button sample pad!

The Korg Krome has a touch screen which I like the idea of but doesn't work with DAW software, has no way to record samples and only has the host USB connection.

In many other respects they seem similar though a constant refrain in a few forums with comparison posts tends to lean to the Roland. Cost is close enough to not lose sleep over and I'm debating trying to find used/open box stock somewhere. I'm a bit leery of Ebay.

Now a different question, and please excuse the newbie-ness of my question. Never owned a workstation and never thought I would consider one.

If I'm reading/watching and understanding, if I want to create a backing style complete with rhythmic chording then I have to do it track by track, right?

And does the FA-x do chording the same as Roland arrangers? ie; 1 or 2 fingers for most chords. And as you change chords does the bass line come along for the ride?

lparsons21 wrote:

Thanks Tony,

As it turns out I would only need one midi cable as the communication via midi is one way, to the BK7M to tell it what to do. Audio wise it would be 2 sets of cables. From BK to FA to my Lowrey organ for its audio amp and speakers. Don't know if the FA will pass through like that but if not then FA to BK to Lowrey as I know the BK will do that.

Further reading is leading me more to the FA as well as the many videos I'm nearly burned out watching! :)

The FA-6/7/8 have a beautiful color screen, can record samples and will work with DAW software, and has that Axial site for official downloads. It also has USB host and remote. I also have fallen in love with the videos showing lots of use of the 16 button sample pad!

The Korg Krome has a touch screen which I like the idea of but doesn't work with DAW software, has no way to record samples and only has the host USB connection.

In many other respects they seem similar though a constant refrain in a few forums with comparison posts tends to lean to the Roland. Cost is close enough to not lose sleep over and I'm debating trying to find used/open box stock somewhere. I'm a bit leery of Ebay.

Now a different question, and please excuse the newbie-ness of my question. Never owned a workstation and never thought I would consider one.

If I'm reading/watching and understanding, if I want to create a backing style complete with rhythmic chording then I have to do it track by track, right?

And does the FA-x do chording the same as Roland arrangers? ie; 1 or 2 fingers for most chords. And as you change chords does the bass line come along for the ride?

Typically, a workstation provides you with a "blank sheet of paper" in the form of the 16 track sequencer. You put in it what you want. This is quite different from keyboards that have all those built in styles and single-finger chording.

That said, the FA series has some kind of chording mechanism. I have not gotten to that yet, so maybe somebody else has more experience with that.

One suggestion I have is that if you end up buying an FA series, realize that there are three different keybeds to choose from, 61 key, 76 key, and 88 key. I currently own both the 76 key and the 88 key as a result of some trading. I consider my FA-08 to be a backup in case my digital piano stops working and needs repair/replacement, or if my FA-07 does that.

Anyway, I really didn't like the 61 key feel at all. to me, it was almost like those cheap "chicklet" type keys - awful. I really like the feel of the 76 key version, as well as the 88 key version. You really have to try them yourself, since it is a personal thing. However, what I have read from others has been very consistent, and seems to agree with my assessment.

I believe you said you are older (like me...). Consider that there is a big difference in the weight of these keyboards. The 76 key version is half the weight of the 88 key version (18 lbs vs 36 lbs), and I am sure the 61 key version is quite light. So if you will have to move your keyboard on occasion, that would be a consideration.

Tony

Thanks tony.

I’m leaning towards a 61-key, but the 76(?) key is holding my interest a lot, so I’ll probably get that. Key feel isn’t as important to me as to many others. I’ve never played piano, only organ and prefer the softer feel. And yeah, weight is a consideration, but that’s why I keep my son’s phone number handy! ;)

Unfortunately I can’t try any of them as there is no local dealer. Only thing local is a Yamaha dealer and a Roland dealer that doesn’t do much with keyboards. He was closed today but I’ll go uptown and see if he might have an FA-x to try. I was ther a few days ago roaming around but didn’t see one.

lparsons21 wrote:

Thanks tony.

I’m leaning towards a 61-key, but the 76(?) key is holding my interest a lot, so I’ll probably get that. Key feel isn’t as important to me as to many others. I’ve never played piano, only organ and prefer the softer feel. And yeah, weight is a consideration, but that’s why I keep my son’s phone number handy! ;)

Unfortunately I can’t try any of them as there is no local dealer. Only thing local is a Yamaha dealer and a Roland dealer that doesn’t do much with keyboards. He was closed today but I’ll go uptown and see if he might have an FA-x to try. I was ther a few days ago roaming around but didn’t see one.

I think the 76 key is a really good compromise between the 61 and 88 key versions. One thing to consider is that you can set up multiple keyboard splits VERY easily on the FA series. With 61 keys, you could run out of room rather quickly. Also, the 61 key keybed seems to have a really cheap feel and smaller keys. The 76 key version has a nice firm feel and regular size (not piano style) keys. when I say "firm" I don't mean hard to press like a true piano key, but instead just comfortable. But, then, the feel of the 88 key version is not really heavy either. It seems on the lighter side of many 88 key digital pianos and workstations, quite comfortable for older hands. :) If you ever did decide to learn to play piano, I think the 88 key version would serve you well so you would not have to buy a digital piano, saving you money and space.

Tony

You'll do well to get an FA-07 cheaper secondhand as they're the newest models, and as such hold their price very well - and being newer, availability won't be as great as the -06, for example.

Also, if you can, i'd have a feel of the -06 if there's anywhere you can go to try them, although i love mine and am very comfortable with the keys they are hugely disappointing when you try them in a store. Particularly if they're sat next to an -08 for comparison, it almost makes you wanna cry that the difference is so huge. Hence the -07 i guess.

As for the single fingered chords, the FA does have a chord mode, but it's not as complete as an arranger (i.e. you can't hold the root and a minor to trigger a minor chord - whatever you play is preset in key and scale... i.e. 'only' majors, or 'only' minors etc.

You can also set the bass part to play via an arpeggiator and on a keyboard split to give the impression of an auto-arranger, but honestly, it's quite different to what the BK would give you, worlds apart really as it lacks the variation an intelligence of an arranger.

As posted above the FA is like a blank piece of paper, for me that's it's appeal - while i'd have hours and hours of fun with an arranger, ultimately i like to be recording my own 'way out' drum patterns, bass lines, and chord sequences. But at the same time, i would really enjoy the BK just to be able to completely drop technical aspect, and bypass my limited playing skills, and concentrate on chord progressions and creating a song in that way - it would be really interesting... But damn those BK's are expensive! :)

As for Krome vs FA - for me personally, i find the FA easier to use, sounds are subjective, but yes the FA will definitely overlap soundwise with your BK. Whether that's an issue i don't know, if you were coming out of the BK and into the FA to record the midi data from the BK as a song performance in the FA, then it could be seen as a bonus to be able to dial in similar sounds.

The lesser priced Krome 2 looks quite good, but i've not had a chance to play with one to know how good they are, but i've seen a few presentations by the UK Korg guy on youtube and he put them across very well.

You may consider something like the Yamaha MOXF's - they will give you an improvement (in my opinion) on string/acoustic/orchestral sounds, plus can be expanded with sample based tones.

However, the screen is tiny which makes it harder to use than the FA, despite having a good array of buttons.

If you want to get something good sounding on the cheap though, i'd keep an eye out for a Korg M50, i've seen them go for ridiculously low prices recently (250 GBP), they have great sounds, great sequencer - but lack any kind of sample playback. I have a real soft spot for the M50, there's something wonderful about it for me - i will get an M3 (Which the M-50 'based' on) one day, which has Karma built in - if you like arrangers, and not seen Karma in action, then do so! :)

So many choices out there! lol :)

Thanks for the writeup, it is appreciated.

My thinking with the using the BK had been to have a single, midi only track that I could send to the BK as keyboard events with no actual sound selection in it and let the BK's intelligence do what it does with that. That's what I do when I use it with my Lowrey organ though as a live performance and not a 'recording'. While I think I can do that with a workstation, I haven't quite figured out how from videos and the owners manuals so far. That way I could concentrate on really gussying up the 'upper' keyboard in a song with counter-melody, melody, arps and such and not have to fumble-finger chording as I usually do.

Trying to do much more than that with the BK7M, like on the fly changes to it, would be done on the BK itself. That's primarily because sending other signals to it can get very hairy and give uncertain results. IOW, if I select a style on the Lowrey it changes things on the BK but there is no documentation of what and often it changes things differently even with the same style change. My BK is set to ignore pretty much everything MIDI except for keystrokes.

Because of the size of arrangers/workstations and the fact they only have one keyboard, making on the fly selections on the BK becomes more 'normal' since it can be positioned in a more normalized position. Things like breaks, variations and so forth.

If you've ever seen videos of accordionists with one, you can see that they pretty much are doing the send keystrokes only method and make other changes on the BK itself. Usually they set up a playlist because the BK isn't the most user friendly box for live playing otherwise.

As to putting my hands on both the FA-x and Krome, well that's almost impossible around here. Nearest Korg dealer is about 100 miles away. While I have a local Roland dealer, his selection of keyboards is sparse, but I am going uptown today to see if he has an FA or 3 in stock to try out. Assuming he doesn't I found a reputable dealer with a good return policy that has said no problem with ordering both and sending back the one I don't want. I may just do that.

When I started this quest I was actually looking at arrangers since they are more like things I have used in the past. The modern home organ is very like an arranger in operation though it has 2 keyboards and foot pedals. And I noticed that while I could massage things on an arranger, it was a bit limited compared to the breadth of things I could twiddle with on a workstation. I find that fascinating!

The keybed itself isn't a big concern as I never played piano, I've always played the organ, which until relatively recently didn't do much more than on/off with the keyboard. No touch sensitivity or aftertouch, those are relatively new things to some organs. And my playing skills are very amateurish as the last lesson I took was in 1961!

lparsons21 wrote:

Thanks tony.

I’m leaning towards a 61-key, but the 76(?) key is holding my interest a lot, so I’ll probably get that. .

If I had it to do over again (and the 07 was out when I bought my 06) I would have bought the 07.

Should I fall into any extra disposable income (unlikely) the first thing I'm going to do is trade in the 06 for an 07.

I even considered the 08 but footprint and weight were issues as I was gigging at the time and space was at a premium - still is in the home studio.

The keys on the 06 are "shaved" a bit, meaning that they're slightly smaller in many dimensions - not as long, also the black keys are more "rounded" on the top - it's hard to get "leverage" further up the key and for me, a hobbyist keyboard player, it's easy for me to accidentally hit a wrong key. Outwardly they look like full-size keys, but, there's the teensiest bit missing - which causes me problems.

The black keys are also now infamously so much easier to trigger to top velocity and there's nothing you can do about it.

I have a Roland A-800 which looks and feels like the same keybed but no matter how hard I hit it (and I mean really hit it) I can't get it to send a velocity much above about 112 ish. And the velocity curves on it are really good.

The velocity curves on the 06 are not as good - and again, there's no way to limit the top end. So you play C-D-Eb-F-G and your Eb is going to have 10% more velocity than the other notes a lot of time.

Now, on Synth sounds, it matters not. But for Piano, it matters greatly. You either need a REALLY light touch, or need a good 88 key controller (but my A 800 makes the piano sound way better than the 06's internal keybed).

So I totally don't mind the keys for most non-piano sounds. it's also great if you're in a live band and need the piano to always be at the top end of the velocity scale and cut through the mix.

But for nuanced playing, no. And that's the one reason I'd go up to the 07. I don't know that it's THAT much better, but even if the improvement was at the level of my A 800 I'd be happy - which I understand it is.

The FA-07 is definitely worth it over the 06. They keys (size and feel) on the 06 arnt good - the 07 however has a real nice feel and full sized keys.

FWIW, I dont like the keybed on the Krome either - full sized but cheap plasticky fee(might just be me though).

I am going to replace my ageing Fantom-S with a FA07 after a few weeks checking everything out. The Kronos is better, but much harder to get your head round, and much more expensive. Nothing else ultimately for my requirements (as I wanted a VA or analogue synth but disnt want to loose the sequencer and programmable apr on my Fantom-S).

Ive tried the Korg Kronos, Krome,King Korg and Prologue, Rolands FAs, System 8 and and JD-XA, Yamahas Montage and Motif (last model and used) - Ive also tried a studio logic sledge, a DSI Rev 8 and OB, a behringer Deep mind and a Peak module.

Everyone is different in requirement and taste, but the Roland FA07 just seemed to be the standout for me. While it is limited in many ways (mostly things I wouldn't use anyway though) - it is a VERY good mix of virtual analogue synth, sequencer, apregiator, sampler, Rompler, with a great keybed (the 06 isnt good as Ive said and I dont like the 08s action feel really) - and with 76 keys theres plently of space without the size of a full 88 board...and its light.

If I hadnt bought an RD2000 6 weeks ago (to learn on at 50) Id have had one already. As It is Im leaving it another month or so - but its definitely the one for me.

It could be that I just wasn't aware of at the time of its introduction, but it just seems to me that there really wasn't a big splash in music circles about the FA series. I really just stumbled on it. The more I looked into it, the more appealing the FA series became for me. I don't hear folks locally talking about it, nor did I see much online until I specifically started looking for information. Once I searched on youtube, I found lots of stuff about the FA series though.

To me, the FA series has pretty much everything I would want, and it is packaged in such a way as to be easy to use. A while back, I had a Yamaha Motif XS8. It had a lot of really good aspects, but was difficult to really learn and become productive with. The problem I had was that if I didn't use it for a while, I had to really dig into the manual to remember how to use it. By contrast, everything about the FA series seems well laid out and makes sense, making it easy to get to know and use. In hindsight, I think that is a very important consideration when choosing a workstation.

Tony