Possible CC control? - Boutique Synths

Re: Possible CC control?

18 Nov 2015, 10:41

paologatto wrote:
But.. there is a big BUT.. enabling the polychain mode, and playing notes with the mini keyboard (still didn't try with an external keyboard) the MIDI sent to daw does not include Note ON messages until I keep pressed 4 keys on the keyboard. It sends only note OFF. So when in polychain, the master unit is the last of the chain unfortunately.. how to overcome this? or I'm missing something?

This is a limitation of the Boutique synths, a shame really. Roland should enable sysex output even with chain mode deactivated (or make a full CC in/out option). Let's hope for a firmware update! I have a DSI Tetra with similar polychain functionality but that synth has a dedicated MIDI output for polychain, that's a lot smarter.

Re: Possible CC control?

18 Nov 2015, 13:18

As requested -- A template for TB Midi Stuff for the JP-08. I've also taken to mapping all the sliders to CCs, so you can use tbms as a converter and automate. Thanks for all the help on the forum with figuring out all the information.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/f69q2s1smwrdtme/Roland%20Boutique%20JP-08.tbms?dl=0

Re: Possible CC control?

18 Nov 2015, 14:50

witchmaster wrote:
paologatto wrote:
But.. there is a big BUT.. enabling the polychain mode, and playing notes with the mini keyboard (still didn't try with an external keyboard) the MIDI sent to daw does not include Note ON messages until I keep pressed 4 keys on the keyboard. It sends only note OFF. So when in polychain, the master unit is the last of the chain unfortunately.. how to overcome this? or I'm missing something?
This is a limitation of the Boutique synths, a shame really. Roland should enable sysex output even with chain mode deactivated (or make a full CC in/out option). Let's hope for a firmware update! I have a DSI Tetra with similar polychain functionality but that synth has a dedicated MIDI output for polychain, that's a lot smarter.

I will try to understand if using an external keyboard, with polychain enabled, the JP plays the notes.. at that point should be easy to make an editor / librarian and have it usable at the same time. A possible solution (not very elegant) could be keeping 4 notes always ON from the external controller..

Another thing I want to discover is if the editing of the 2 patches on the 2 layers, when in dual mode, are possible without pushing the upper/lower button. I'd like to control, for example, the cutoff of both the layers at the same time, and if they respond to different sysex this is possible using an external controller

Re: Possible CC control?

18 Nov 2015, 15:17

Everything is operating as it should with poly chain on. It only sends the notes that can't be played on the unit itself in this mode. This is intentional. Otherwise both machines chained together will play the notes simultaneously, which would not increase your voices. If you turn off poly chain, it sends all notes to the next unit.

Re: Possible CC control?

18 Nov 2015, 17:43

IraVirus wrote:
Everything is operating as it should with poly chain on. It only sends the notes that can't be played on the unit itself in this mode. This is intentional. Otherwise both machines chained together will play the notes simultaneously, which would not increase your voices. If you turn off poly chain, it sends all notes to the next unit.

yes, sure, but with polychain off there are no sysex in/out.
If only they made in a way that first the 4 voices of the master machine are played and then the 4 voices of the slave, all would be simpler.

Anyway, I tried using an external keyboard and all the Note ON messages are correctly played also from the master keyboard, so problem solved

Re: Possible CC control?

18 Nov 2015, 18:36

That is how it works. The master machine plays first and then the slave machine. Is yours doing it differently?

And Sysex in works without poly chain on or else poly chain wouldn't work with transferring the patches/changes to the slave unit. (You don't put the slave unit in poly chain mode, or it expects it to have its own slave unit for twelve voices)

Re: Possible CC control?

18 Nov 2015, 19:11

IraVirus wrote:
That is how it works. The master machine plays first and then the slave machine. Is yours doing it differently?

And Sysex in works without poly chain on or else poly chain wouldn't work with transferring the patches/changes to the slave unit. (You don't put the slave unit in poly chain mode, or it expects it to have its own slave unit for twelve voices)

check with a midi monitor the "Note ON" messages coming out from the JP in polychain mode, played with the K25 keyboard and you will understand what I mean ;-)

Re: Possible CC control?

18 Nov 2015, 19:15

In other words: if I play with the K25 keyboard and in polychain mode I can record with the DAW the movement of the sliders, but not the note played (more precisely: I can record only the notes after the 5th voice), if I turn off polychain I can record all notes but not the sysex so no movements of sliders. Roland should implement a new mode where sysex (or better CC) are always sent and received, like in System 1

Re: Possible CC con

18 Nov 2015, 19:57

paologatto wrote:
In other words: if I play with the K25 keyboard and in polychain mode I can record with the DAW the movement of the sliders, but not the note played (more precisely: I can record only the notes after the 5th voice), if I turn off polychain I can record all notes but not the sysex so no movements of sliders. Roland should implement a new mode where sysex (or better CC) are always sent and received, like in System 1

Ah. Didn't catch that you were trying to record both at the same time. Totally see why that's annoying to you. (And I didn't get the K25, so wasn't aware it responded backwards from the DIN IN)

Re: Possible CC control?

21 Nov 2015, 13:13

Just installed the driver and discovered that midi Note ON and OFF are always sent with midi by USB, also when in polychain mode, so problem 100% resolved. It is sufficient to connect the boutique both with USB and with DIN MIDI

Re: Possible CC control?

27 Nov 2015, 12:41

I'm trying to control the JP08 sliders with my Axiom 61 using Bome's MIDI Translator Classic.

For some reason I cant get it going. I also have a Roland Juno 106 which uses SYSEX, I can control that fine with my Axiom and Bome's. I dont understand why the JP08 would be any diffrent unless Im missing something.

Bome's is picking up the SYSEX of the VCF Cutoff of the JP08 as

F0 41 10 00 00 00 1C 12 03 00 02 02 09 00 70 F7

Im trying to allow my Axiom Slider (CC 20) to control this.

Like I said, I was able to get it to work with the Juno 106.

Any ideas?

Thanks!

Re: Possible CC control?

27 Nov 2015, 17:38

JarvisMusic wrote:
I'm trying to control the JP08 sliders with my Axiom 61 using Bome's MIDI Translator Classic.

For some reason I cant get it going. I also have a Roland Juno 106 which uses SYSEX, I can control that fine with my Axiom and Bome's. I dont understand why the JP08 would be any diffrent unless Im missing something.

Bome's is picking up the SYSEX of the VCF Cutoff of the JP08 as

F0 41 10 00 00 00 1C 12 03 00 02 02 09 00 70 F7

Im trying to allow my Axiom Slider (CC 20) to control this.

Like I said, I was able to get it to work with the Juno 106.

Any ideas?

Thanks!

I'm not really familiar with Bome's Midi translator, but it can have something to do with how the data bytes are sent, normally values are 7-bit or 14-bits (in two parts), but for the Boutiques, the values are 8-bits split up into two 4-bit parts. Another thing could be the checksum, it has to be calculated from bytes number 9 to 14 or these bytes in the sysex you posted: 03 00 02 02 09 00

I just finished a two-way midi converter for the Boutiques, it's working quite well: http://www.daemonbite.com/boutique-midi-converter/.

Re: Possible CC control?

28 Nov 2015, 11:29

witchmaster wrote:
JarvisMusic wrote:
I'm trying to control the JP08 sliders with my Axiom 61 using Bome's MIDI Translator Classic.

For some reason I cant get it going. I also have a Roland Juno 106 which uses SYSEX, I can control that fine with my Axiom and Bome's. I dont understand why the JP08 would be any diffrent unless Im missing something.

Bome's is picking up the SYSEX of the VCF Cutoff of the JP08 as

F0 41 10 00 00 00 1C 12 03 00 02 02 09 00 70 F7

Im trying to allow my Axiom Slider (CC 20) to control this.

Like I said, I was able to get it to work with the Juno 106.

Any ideas?

Thanks!
I'm not really familiar with Bome's Midi translator, but it can have something to do with how the data bytes are sent, normally values are 7-bit or 14-bits (in two parts), but for the Boutiques, the values are 8-bits split up into two 4-bit parts. Another thing could be the checksum, it has to be calculated from bytes number 9 to 14 or these bytes in the sysex you posted: 03 00 02 02 09 00

I just finished a two-way midi converter for the Boutiques, it's working quite well: http://www.daemonbite.com/boutique-midi-converter/.

Thats awesome! Cant wait to check it out, hopefully today!

Re: Possible CC control?

28 Nov 2015, 22:42

witchmaster wrote:
JarvisMusic wrote:
I'm trying to control the JP08 sliders with my Axiom 61 using Bome's MIDI Translator Classic.

For some reason I cant get it going. I also have a Roland Juno 106 which uses SYSEX, I can control that fine with my Axiom and Bome's. I dont understand why the JP08 would be any diffrent unless Im missing something.

Bome's is picking up the SYSEX of the VCF Cutoff of the JP08 as

F0 41 10 00 00 00 1C 12 03 00 02 02 09 00 70 F7

Im trying to allow my Axiom Slider (CC 20) to control this.

Like I said, I was able to get it to work with the Juno 106.

Any ideas?

Thanks!
I'm not really familiar with Bome's Midi translator, but it can have something to do with how the data bytes are sent, normally values are 7-bit or 14-bits (in two parts), but for the Boutiques, the values are 8-bits split up into two 4-bit parts. Another thing could be the checksum, it has to be calculated from bytes number 9 to 14 or these bytes in the sysex you posted: 03 00 02 02 09 00

I just finished a two-way midi converter for the Boutiques, it's working quite well: http://www.daemonbite.com/boutique-midi-converter/.

Sounds very promising! Will you be developing a Mac OS version, too?

Re: Possible CC control?

29 Nov 2015, 03:07

I have started making an OS X version also, but I have never developed anything for OS X before so I have some stuff to learn, but it's proceeding nonetheless. If I don't stumble upon any unexpected problems I might have an OS X version ready soon.