Fantom X and SRX redundency

Stephanie

I far as I know, none of the waves in the SRX boards are duplicated in the X - they are specific to the SRX boards. But some SRX waves (read quite a few!) are from the older JV boards - so if you have any modules using these boards you may well duplicate.

As far as what ones to buy, well it depends on what type of music you want to compose.

I went for the dynamic drums, symphonic strings, orchestral and big brass - I'm mostly interested in getting good acoustic sounds since these are most difficult (IMHO) to sound convincing.

Steve

I don’t think that Roland included some waves in Fantom X from SRX or JV boards.
As far as I know they never did that before. On the other side, they’ve resample and packing old JV boards sound sets to some new SRX boards.
Which board you need depends what music you are after. For example if you are planning to write orchestral scores, the Complete Orchestra SRX06 would be good to have.

BTW, the internal wave/patch set is pretty decent on Fantom X.

My advice would be – don’t buy SRX board just because you have free slots, it would be good to start with onboard wave/patch sets, and then may be expand internal waves with your own samples, and if it’s not enough then you can check the SRX boards.
I have Supreme Dance SRX05, (to extend mainly onboard Drum Kits) and World SRX09 (for the exotic percussion) installed in Fantom X. But this board will go to my XV5080 soon, in addition to SRX06 installed there.
(The only problem I’ve discovered with my X8 so far is related to onboard user/card bank capacity. I hope that Roland should fix that soon.)

The main advantage of SRX boards is, once installed it’s always ready for usage.
If you are using SRX sound set every day, you need to buy it. If you are using it occasionally, that’s questionable.

BTW, the flash presentation on Roland web site is pretty good:
http://www.rolandus.com/Multimedia/Flash/srx/srx_demo.html

Best wishes …

Thanks for the info WD and Stevie. I just wanted to make sure I would not have redundant waves with my X unit. I use alot of the additional wave on cards as basics for sound design including atmospheric pads.

Regarding which SRX boards would be appropriate I will have to think about that as it really does depend on genres.

Thanks everyone.

Stephanie Sante
www.santemusic.com
(Exploring the Fantom Universe)

The SRX-09 does have a tabla that is on the fantom X internal rom, and the SRX-10 shares some brass staccatos and falls already in the Fantom X rom. These are the only 2 SRX I own, but if both boards have redundancy, i would hazard a guess that other SRX cards do the same.

Hi all.

Rordog is correct in that there are a few limited waveforms on the Fantom-X that are available in the various SRX boards. However, it should be noted that the waveforms provided on the Fantom-X that may be found on SRX boards are limited waveforms. The brass falls Rordog speaks of is actually just one fall sample. I'll bet that the brass fall waveform on the SRX board has at least 2 or 3 sample points for the brass fall. I had the Bass and Drums SR-JV80 expansion board in my XP-80 before I sold it and it's pretty obvious that at least one of the bass waveforms on the Fantom-X comes from the samples on that board. But again, the waveform is limited in that it has fewer sample points.

In addition, it does not appear that there are many waveforms at all that would be duplicated on the SRX boards. I've heard about 3 waveforms that I recognize from expansion boards (according, bass, and orchestral strings) but those all come from different boards. It sounds as if Roland chose one or two waveforms from each of the SR-JV80 boards, dropped a few samples from those waveforms and included them on the Fantom. For me, this wouldn't be enough overlap to discourage me from getting an SRX board that may have the original waveform on it plus 250 + additional Patches.

But, Rordog is right, there is some small overlap.

Regards,

Nathan Sheldon
http://www.nathansheldon.com/

Rordog – Thanks for mentioning it. The tabla waves are indeed there in Fantom X onboard wave set. I actually never checked the wave lists side by side.

But I agree with Nathan, that shouldn’t be used as an excuse preventing us from buying SRX boards.
There are around 1500 waveforms packed in Fantom X, and SRX-09 sports 873 waveforms in addition to that. If, lets say 100 waveforms are just duplicated in both wave sets, it’s still a very good deal.

I am not even talking about new patch and rhythm sets we are getting in addition to that, which are always ready for usage. The hardest thing here is not to buy all of them.

Damn, I already have three…

Since ssante brought it up..

I don't yet have an X (looking to get a X6 this week). I haven't even listened to the X series stuff yet (tomorrow).

I do have an XV-5080, and an XP-30 (going to be part of trade for FX6), and yes I will be keeping the XV-508 (only 3 weeks old and got it for a STEAL).

I've heard a lot of good about the SRX-02 Piano board (along with some comments about quirks). I've also heard that the FX has the BEST built in acoustic piano (ultimate grand?).

Here is the question - is the FX piano so good that it is not worth getting the SRX 2 board? Or is the FX piano the SAME (the same instrument sampled) as the SRX 2? Or are the base piano samples from two different instruments (one sampled for SRX and a different sample for the FX). I'm not looking to "cut through the mix" I want a warm concert sound (e.g., "Moonlight Sonta" with depth, touch sensitivity, and a warm but moody character if that helps you mental picture).

Answer won't change decision to get X6 (it may not even change decision to get SRX 2 for XV-5080) - just wanted to ask anyone who has heard, and preferably used, both.

PS this is my first post and look forward to learning and looking forward to, at some, actually contributing here.

PSS I don't really play keyboard I only hack at it (I'm one of those guitar players)

Thanks
lgk

they are totally different pianos.

Its like saying " I have a Les Paul, why should I get a Strat ? '

I have both, the SRX 02 and the Fantom XR. I like both pianos, in
fact I mix them together

as you know guitars are completely subjective, pianos are the same way.

I will say the Fantom X piano is a bigger sample vs the SRX 02 64 meg piano. The X also has better sustain. The SRX 02 has some cool patches.

GregC

Hi bluesplayer.

With regard to the SRX-02 board, I also have that board along with my Fantom-X8. I used to have an XV-5080 as well with that SRX 02 board installed in it before I got the X8.

Greg is absolutely right with regard to the differences in the two pianos. The SRX-02 pianos are MUCH darker than the FX piano. I'd have to disagree with him on the sample lengths of the SRX piano compared to the FX piano though. The SRX piano samples are longer, but not sampled on every key (around every 3rd or 4th key from my rather extensive examinations). The default patches in the SRX board do not do justice to the waveforms on that board and you'll almost definitely have to program your own good piano patch to get a convincing velocity switch going. Not one of the SRX patches are programmed correctly for proper velocity switching. If you are going to install the SRX board into your XV-5080, I've already created 2 patches that remedy this problem and significantly improve on the realism of the SRX waveforms. You can download both patches for the XV-5080 from my web site in the XV-5080 section. I've also created 1 similar patch for the Fantom-S/X available here on this forum, but am not as pleased with the sound of that patch as I was with my XV-5080 versions.

The Fantom-X piano has 2 advantages in my opinion over the SRX piano. 1) every one of the 88 keys on the piano were sampled. This is not the case with the SRX waveforms. 2) There is audible compression artifacts in the SRX samples, at least to my ears. No such artifacts are apparent in the FX samples.

You are correct about there being some quirks in the SRX 02 board samples. In the "B" set of waveforms, the sample/s associated with keys around B4 on the scale have a "klunk" sound to them as if the string on the piano they sampled was being slightly muted by something touching the string/s (a mic perhaps? hahaha). In any case, though the sound of the piano overall is good, that one flaw and the poor patch programming were disappointing for what I initially payed for the board ($300 when it first came out). Had the Fantom-X been out at the time with it's built-in piano, I would have returned the card, but it was the best sounding piano available at the time and is still a good addition for a piano-loving person like myself.

Regards,

Nathan Sheldon
http://www.nathansheldon.com/

Thanks Nathan (and GregC)

It turns out while doing homework on the boards I had already been to your site, nice work by the way (and keep the 5080 info coming), and saw your patch for/to the SRX board. Like I said I've only had the XV-5080 a few weeks and am still debating what to put into it besides some old SR boards I had - Vintage Synths and Keys 60/70). Complete Orch is one I'm fairly certain I'll buy. The Piano was maybe another I'll have to wait till I hear the Piano in the FX.

PS I like dark pianos (as long as it isn't mud ) I'm looking for a certain mood/sound and I'll know when I hear/play it.

I know I should just buy a piano but that's impractical (I'd either have to give up my guitar, amp, or gun collection to make room and I that won't happen - plus there's the possibility of a divorce if I keep buying stuff

Thanks again
lgk

Hi lgk.

Well, if you keep getting more stuff, I'm sure you're wife will be happy to clear out half your posessions during the divorce, making plenty of room for more stuff! (just kidding man). In any case, I'd suggest listening to a Fantom or something with the SRX-02 board installed, perhaps at a Guitar Center or something, and see what you think before getting one.

Regards,

Nathan Sheldon
http://www.nathansheldon.com/

hey nathan, great answer on the sample differences on fantom X
vs SRX 02.

The ' compression artifacts' on the SRX 02 are noticeable, which led
me to the incorrect statement about sample size. Plus the thought that every Steinway key was sampled for the Fantom X piano.

I will load the velocity switch corrections for the SRX 02.
I have the SRX 02 in my RD 700. Not related- I think it was short
sighted of Roland to not have a Smart Media card slot in the RD 700.

Thanks for the nice work !

GregC

Hi Greg.

Glad to be of help. I'd be curious as to what you think of the velocity switching changes if you get a chanced to share.

Regards,

Nathan Sheldon
http://www.nathansheldon.com/