Experience with Sonar?

Red Winger asked:

"Okay, two questions: are edits non-destructive?"

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I've never heard of ANY DAWs 'without' non-destructive edits.

I mean even my VS1880 has 999 levels of undo...same with my CubaseSX2 and same with every other DAW i've heard of..

wich DAW do u know that does'nt, cuz maybe I'm wrong... Ion't know...?...

Septimo ,'^)

There's a difference between undos and non-destructive edits. For example, in PT, any basic edit you make to an audio region has no impact on the underlying audio content. It just appends some information telling PT where to start playing and where to stop within the audio file. The underlying audio is not touched. You can thus use that same audio file for a region that you chop, slice and dice to pieces and for another region where you keep the audio file as it was. You can do this *without* having to undo the edits you made to the original audio file. It also does this without having to create a separate copy of the original audio file. In a program that doesn't use non-destructive edits in this way, you would need to take some additional steps or use the "undo" feature to get back to the original audio in a separate region.

Also, undos let you go back to a starting point and may (or may not) let you do so once you log out and then log back into the DAW. More importantly, at least with earlier versions of DAWs, "undos" were limited in number. While I suppose 999 is still technically limited in number, I would agree that if you have that many levels of undo, it is effectively unlimited at this point for the DAWs you mention.

Cheers,
RW

Hey RW, just got this in an email from Cakewalk:

"When recording live instruments or singers, it can often take several passes to get things 'just right'. In previous versions, you could stack clips on a single track, which could be cumbersome to edit, or record each take to its own track. It would make it necessary to copy any track parameters or effects to all of the individual tracks, wasting CPU resources and screen space. SONAR 4 allows you to record an unlimited number of takes on a single track, while Track Layers allow you to view all of these clips simultaneously on separate lanes. Putting all of your takes on one track also lets you use the same effect and setting for all your takes giving you the best of both worlds

"Individual clips can even be edited independently, letting you use SONAR 4's new comping tools to combine the best portions of each take. The Mute tool lets you non-destructively silence portions of each take, eliminating extraneous parts of the performance. Isolate lets you select one clip or part of a clip to play, while simultaneously muting all of the other clips and clip regions. Lastly, the Crop tool lets you seamlessly crossfade between multiple clips to combine their elements together for that "ultimate" performance. When you're done, you can go back and listen to the new hybrid take using the Audition command. The Audition command will play back only the tracks and time frame you've selected, making it a snap to zero in on specific parts of your project."

Hey Phil,

That's exactly what I wanted to see! Sorry, I missed your reply until just now. BTW, it appears from Cake's website that if you are a registered customer, you can pick up a copy of Sonar 4PE for $350. If I read that right, that means you could go out and buy Pyro 2004 for less than $50, and then "upgrade" to Sonar 4PE for only another $350. Am I reading this wrong? That seems like a fantastic price, given that the next best path for non-Sonar users (Sonar 3SE to Sonar 4 PE) would cost another couple of hundred.

Cheers,
RW

"In previous versions, you could stack clips on a single track, which could be cumbersome to edit, or record each take to its own track. "

So now they accept it was cumbersome!!!

Well, their MIDI piano roll is still cumbersome. I have SONAR 2, and I am skipping SONAR 4 also.

SONAR MIDI piano roll, specially the Controller pane is from 1980s.



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Remember that there are only 3 MFX + 1 Reverb + 1 Chorus in Fantom-S/X and you have to share them across 16 parts (patches) in a song.

live a musical life

RW,

Actually, I got an email from Cakewalk about a Sonar 4 tour and it said they will be doing competitive upgrades at the demos. I'm not sure of the prices, but if it's the same, that's even better for you.

Here's what it said:

"**Competitive upgrades will be extended for the following products: Logic, Cubase VST and higher, Pro Tools LE, Nuendo, Audio Desk, Digital Performer, Vegas Audio, ACID Pro, Reason and Live. Please bring in the product CD the night of show as proof of ownership to qualify for a competitive upgrade."

And here's a link to the locations and dates:
http://www.cakewalk.com/products/sonar/tour/

shakil,

The one thing I'm afraid of with Cakewalk these days is that they are falling into that Digi bifurcation of product features between products. For example, the controller pane in Project 5 looks awesome. You just draw in your curves over the piano roll step sequencer. It would be nice if Sonar just included the P5 step sequencer and soft-synths too, but at least you don't have to plunk down $10 grand for the features of the other like you do with HD, but it's annoying to have to buy P5 to get that stuff when you're already the owner of their flagship product.

That said, Sonar is their DAW and P5 is their groovebox. So, they'll always be some differences.

I took the plunge..........getting Sonar3PE for 299 with a free upgrade to 4 when it ships. I'm psyched.

Hey Guys,

Phil, thanks for the info on the competitive crossgrade. I'm actually already signed up for the tour when they get to the Bay Area, but that's not until November. I may actually run across them at the SF Remix Hotel first, though. Fortunately for me, I've got a number of the programs that qualify for the crossgrade. I notice that AudioMidi is selling the crossgrade for $399, so if they can beat that price, that might be the way to go.

Mucsusn, where'd you get a price of $299 for 3PE with a free upgrade? The only place I've seen that was offering the free upgrade was AudioMidi, and they were asking $400+ for the 3PE to qualify.

Geez, I'm really getting tempted. My quandry is whether I want to stick to my guns and pick up a G5 for my desktop system (really, really expensive, because, in addition to the G5 and monitor, I'd also have to replace SoundForge and a couple other programs I have that are XP-only), or whether I pick up an XP system instead (much cheaper for me overall). If the former, than I'd be sticking with Logic (and would probably upgrade to the full Logic Pro at that point, hoping that Logic Pro 7 is soon to come). If I go PC, though, I think I'll probably make the switch to Sonar. Hmmm.....burp. 'Scuze me. Just a touch of GAS.

Cheers,
RW

RW,

I got the 299 price at Academicsuperstore.com. They have a whole slew of major software at kickass prices for the academic community. My wife is enrolled in a University, and is a public school teacher.

The free upgrade is being offered by Cakewalk, not by the retailers. You have to buy Sonar 3 before Sonar 4 ships to qualify.

I can email you the pdf if you like.

BTW, academicsuperstore has already posted their price of the new PE4 at $459. That ought to kick a few copies of PE3 out the door, eh?

Regards

Mucsusn,

Thanks. I pulled down the pdf from the website. That's a great deal, although I'm not sure if I can take advantage of that price or not. I may not be in a position to move that fast (still making some decisions about the underlying DAW system), and I'm not technically eligible, although my 7 year old may be.

Anyway, thanks for the info, as that's helpful.

Cheers,
RW