V-Synth

V-SYNTH XT: New Wine in Old Bottles :) - WHY XT OVER GT

V-SYNTH XT: New Wine in Old Bottles :) - WHY XT OVER GT

29 Nov 2011, 09:45
Hi,

My post explains why I bought a second-hand V-SYNTH XT in lieu of a GT when money is no object.

Being an owner of Kyma Capybara, Pacarana and a ton of other extremely high-end studio gear, I spent a lot of time researching the V-SYNTH before, yesterday, buying one on eBay with a BIN price (about $1500). Yeah, I saw a GT for $1800.00 and based on my research, and the gear I have (Lexicon 480L, Eventide H8000) in the studio, I chose the V-Synth XT. This machine in the right hands can make anyone a star: just write good music with it and use a good DAW. I am totally blown away by a piece of gear that is several years old.

My Reasons:

1) The KYMA is the only system that can do what Roland calls "VariPhrase", but, having this in a single package that is multi-timbral and allows key-zones is really, very, very powerful for creative music synthesis and, most of all, new compositional approaches to creating music. The fact that the GT has two engines is immaterial - just buy two XT's and you're better off. The KYMA is great, powerful, but steep learning curve. The V-Synth XT gets you to the core value of re-synthesis instantly with little learning curve and most of the similar results. The KYMA, however, is the most amazing for high-end (multiple spectral morphing). You can mimic this with XT using multi-timbrality.

2) The Vocal Designer card is replicated by the algorithms on KYMA and Eventide H8000, but, when you use a V-Synth XT, those much more expensive boxes are freed up for harder algorithms: by the time you get a VC-2 card vocal through a good reverb, it sounds much, much, much better than the GT with built-in processing and you can use *internal* waveforms to the VC2 as either or both carrier and modulator opening up the possibilities several times larger for sound creation and beat-oriented chord comping than on the V-Synth GT.

3) Roland's management team have head-rot and have lost their way - like so many large companies, managers are usually not musicians and they ruin pretty much everything that a fine R&D department creates with sub-standard and often arrogant, lowest-common-denominator thinking: it is a real shame that the GT version design has been compromised on so many levels. The V-Synth XT, for example, integrates the D50 and even though that is not a really big deal, the fact that it is unavailable in the GT which is supposed to be a superior machine is just beyond me (yeah, I heard all about that the design of the hardware is different - but, that design was clearly driven by managers, not musicians or the R&D team).

4) I predict that that the biggest dud for Roland will be their worse selling keyboard of all time: The new so-called "Jupiter" ... what a disappointment: nuff said on that. After I saw the new Jupiter, I rushed to get the XT --- their prices will go up and these machines will be harder and harder to find. XT has nice separate outputs on the back so you can use your favorite outboard: I use the Lexicon 480L and Eventide H8000 --- these complement the great effects on the main channels of the V-Synth, but I use them on the other assignable outputs on the back.

5) The playability of vocals and other sounds with the XT is staggering: just as a keyboard for post-production of musically useful vocal-track building, nothing I know of is as good. Okay, the GT but, you don't get the multi-timbral and hence, for *real* control of multiple voice cuts, in a percussion kit sense, the XT can't be beat. I stand to be corrected but that's currently how I am seeing it.

6) It fits in a RACK in the studio and I can use much better controllers than stock keyboards (I use the Haken Continuum fingerboard, with X-Y-Z motion and poly-pressure, Kurzweil MIDIBOARD).

7) D50 is a great synth and provides a good palette that is in fact different to the COSM - not a nostalgia piece but a really useful piece of kit.

8) As studio space in homes and elsewhere becomes more important, Roland will need to think about RACK based gear as a lot of folks need to conserve space --- Also, it appears that they don't realize that a lot of *stage* performers do not want a stack of keyboards for roadies to carry but want a great controller on stage, perhaps with poly-aftertouch, and superb control response (like the VAX77 keyboards) manipulating a computer and a rack.

Cheers!

Re: V-SYNTH XT: New Wine in Old Bottles :) - WHY XT OVER GT

30 Nov 2011, 11:02
Great review, I'm in the process of looking for an xt for myself too.

Re: V-SYNTH XT: New Wine in Old Bottles :) - WHY XT OVER GT

2 Dec 2011, 20:35
Agree. People think it was big mistake for Roland to produce such a useful and versalite synth. They realised it and started to produce one-sided marketing synth, which I never buy.

Re: V-SYNTH XT: New Wine in Old Bottles :) - WHY XT OVER GT

2 Dec 2011, 23:10
Thank you for reading, and also the comments.

Roland has been infected with bad "management". Lexicon has the same problem of bad management also. In these companies, the creative people have either left or become cynical as they are not free to do what they do best: which is to be creative. But, in the case of Lexicon, the creative people left to create a new company with a reverb to out-compete Lexicon's 960L (which is why Lexicon retired it - no creative people left, just dumb managers) --- the new company is called BRICASTI - check it out. In my case, I just bought a V-Synth XT and I also bought a John Bowen "SOLARIS" synth because he is a creative designer, and, has no dumb management to answer to (check that out to, it's a musical sound-designer's synth) --- in fact, I suspect that we will see more and more people ultimately leaving big companies to create their own amazing designs in more cottage-industry because these greedy dumb-ass managers are not able to realize what they have in their talent pool (which is why they are very, very rarely creative people themselves (but Steve Jobs was a creative manager, an exception to the rule, and you can see how he made Apple amazing, compared to the dumb-ass manager (the previous CEO) that nearly bankrupted the company he created)). I am hoping that someone at Roland reads these posts and re-thinks what the future of their company is: the Jupiter is a fine preset instrument which is not what the original Jupiter was - a disappointment and I don't see the sparkle in anyone's eyes as they demonstrate this machine online (just look at the Howard Jones demo) and nor do I see the kind of demonstrations that are actually meaningful in terms of capability (in fact, the old V-Synth demos really are quite awesome). Oh well, I'll shut up now ;)

Re: V-SYNTH XT: New Wine in Old Bottles :) - WHY XT OVER GT

8 Dec 2011, 13:16
it's always nice to read something so emotional about the V-synth.
As a matter of fact, I have hardly ever read something like "this synth didn't touch me".
It is something special, something I haven't been able to identify, that keeps me coming back to my V-Synth.
It's not without faults, but for some strange esoterical reason, my V makes me smile everytime I play it. That's what makes it an instrument, I guess ;)

Re: V-SYNTH XT: New Wine in Old Bottles :) - WHY XT OVER GT

9 Dec 2011, 00:04
Thanks!

I am really having fun with it --- pretty soon, the holiday season will be upon us and I bet a lot of people will look to sell gear, and some will sell great XT units. This is definitely a better unit to work with than the plain v-synth (unless you need the keyboard and controls). FYI: I run my XT through a Moogerfooger to get a really warm "Moog" analog filter tone which complements the Roland source sound beautifully.

I have been experimenting with the variphrase sampling "artefacts" to see how to generate musically more interesting movement in the sampling. Here's what I have been doing so far: do one round of sampling with a low-pass filter (preferably 48db/oct), pre-input, then do another sample, with a high-pass, pre-input (good if you have a modular synth module or use your DAW eq/filters), then assign one sound to midi channel, for example, midi ch.1 and the other to midi.ch2 --- you will find that this reconstructive construction of the sound is very rich: I was surprise by how well vari-phrase introduces differential tonal qualities to the two types of tones and the use of the analog filters to split the sound into high and low parts introduces natural movement when combined... hmn, maybe I need another XT :) Of course, for those with a GT this is easy with the two tones, but, you don't get the multi-timbrality, which I actually need and use.

Cheers!

Re: V-SYNTH XT: New Wine in Old Bottles :) - WHY XT OVER GT

9 Dec 2011, 16:33
Good writing. Would you be so kind to place sound example, please?

Re: V-SYNTH XT: New Wine in Old Bottles :) - WHY XT OVER GT

12 Dec 2011, 05:34
On a marginally OT note... but maybe not.

I never bought the XT because I was not interested in a digital synth. My interest lied elsewhere.

I then tested the jupiter, and found it ho-hum on some important features I need. Whatever.

Well, I recently bought for 250 euros a VP-9000 [which I reckno contains the "sample and stretch" engine of the XT].

Amazing.

Creativity, intellectual stimulus, curiosity.

And problem-solving.

That's what buying a new synth should be about.

I wanted to post this because I have been told I am a "Korg-sponsored Roland-basher", because I objected to the Jupiter.

No way.

The whole variphrase thing e.g. was a huge idea (I am tempted testing a XT now...).

Roland can (could?) do excellent products.

My regret is that I heavily rely on yamaha synths... which yamaha won't produce anynmore (the VLs)... analogue synths that few produce anymore [at leat there's been a revival in that sector], EMU samplers which have no competitor. And now, Roland tools that Roland discarded.

I feel like I am displaced in time: I basically buy all my new synths... USED! Because the market for new synths is disapponting.

(admittedly, even the kurzweil pc3k8 I just bought, and which is a perfect master and a very good EP emulator, is a "OLD", "obsolete" synth)

Re: V-SYNTH XT: New Wine in Old Bottles :) - WHY XT OVER GT

21 Dec 2011, 06:36
Not sure why you posted this? You have your reasons, were you looking for justification? Both machines have strengths and weaknesses, like every machine out there.

Re: V-SYNTH XT: New Wine in Old Bottles :) - WHY XT OVER GT

21 Dec 2011, 17:23
Because Galaxi wanted to share his opinion with us, I am interested, you are not. This is what this forum for.

Re: V-SYNTH XT: New Wine in Old Bottles :) - WHY XT OVER GT

27 Dec 2011, 14:23
well if money is no object, why not buy both?

Re: V-SYNTH XT: New Wine in Old Bottles :) - WHY XT OVER GT

30 Dec 2011, 05:52
For me the XT is The Jewel

It fits right in with everything and anything past and present.
Its about the most usefull gear roland ever produced.
I have the original V and had the GT for a short time.. (what a disappointment this board was)
I quickly got rid of it again within 2 weeks.

and yes the fact that its got 3 dedicated modes is just fantastic..
vocal, V, and D50
thats just about everything you ever need to go solo.
The XT is about the best investment anyone can make.
and dont ask
IM NOT SELLING MINE! :)



[img]http://www.geocities.com/cpmul/myconfig.jpg[/img] - [img]http://forums.rolandclan.info/pub/attach/116700-UT.jpg[/img] - [img]http://www.geocities.com/cpmul/filesystem.jpg[/img]






Listen to GlassSlipper


X-Bugs.org

Results not Excuses

My Setup

Re: V-SYNTH XT: New Wine in Old Bottles :) - WHY XT OVER GT

30 Dec 2011, 12:35
I agree the XT is a jewel,but for me so are all of the V synth models,why did You find the GT such a dissapointment?its essentially 2/3 rds of the engines available but also gives you a dual engine XT.

The only thing Roland did wrong with the GT IMO was leave the D50 engine out and not give it far more polyphony,especially since giving it a dual engine

I sold my GT to fund other more important synths last year as I already had an XT,thought I'd never miss it and did it to reduce the amount of keys i had but severely missed it,thankfully managed to score another one for a bargain price a few months ago seeing as I thought I would end up having to buy a brand new one again,some £1000 more new price now than I paid for mine originally thanks to the over inflated Exchange rate now....Will never sell either again

Re: V-SYNTH XT: New Wine in Old Bottles :) - WHY XT OVER GT

30 Dec 2011, 18:27
"why did You find the GT such a disappointment?"

the OS was incomplete and was more difficult to program
yes it was missing the d50 and the vocoder was not as flexible.



[img]http://www.geocities.com/cpmul/myconfig.jpg[/img] - [img]http://forums.rolandclan.info/pub/attach/116700-UT.jpg[/img] - [img]http://www.geocities.com/cpmul/filesystem.jpg[/img]






Listen to GlassSlipper


X-Bugs.org

Results not Excuses

My Setup

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