How far is Roland behind, really?

One thing I regret is that there is no Krono module version. I have no more room for boards.

Astra- give it a year. They might release one considering the sound engine the thing has, people will want to hook it up to their digital pianos and such.

Look -- all of the Japanese synth manufacturers take a very long view in the business world. And don't forget that Roland sells other products, as does Yamaha. Korg is the only one among them who specializes in musical instruments -- there is no "Korg Motorcycles" or "Korg Outboard Motors" division.

Sure, go ahead -- laugh all you want, but this is what is going on. Roland makes stuff that is not even musical -- the last time that I visited their global HQ web site, they had products there that made me think of Yamaha. And Yamaha is widely known for being a true conglomerate.

This is probably why Roland is second in the music instrument technology race -- Yamaha is definitely posting a distant third. Roland isn't quite as big as Yamaha, but more diversified than Korg. All of it makes perfect sense, if you understand Japanese business practice and culture. Roland is looking, perhaps, twenty years from now -- they most likely WILL come out swinging -- but it might take them five years or more.

If I were a Roland exec, I'd be watching with great interest to see how well Korg does with, say, the Kronos. If that product makes the kind of splash that a lot of people expect that it will, then Roland might create something that blows it right out of the water. But it makes sense for any company to be aware first of the market, before sinking valuable resources into something that might not pay off in the long run.

Korg might be taking a huge risk with Kronos. If iPad 2 comes out and effectively squashes the synth market, then Kronos might not be that attractive an option. A lot of today's musicians are more like DJs with some musical background -- and a lot of them are increasingly YOUNG. Kids aren't necessarily into the same types of big, expensive workstations that their fathers prefer.

I'm not saying anything definite here -- I'm just throwing out some thoughts. But I'm definitely going to stick to my view that Roland is being pretty circumspect here, and it makes good business sense for them to be that way.

- Sammy

P.S. And in case you were wondering, Roland makes computer peripherals in addition to their musical instrument products. Yes, they are mostly an MI company, but they do have other business interests as well.

Korg might be taking a huge risk with Kronos. If iPad 2 comes out and effectively squashes the synth market, then Kronos might not be that attractive an option. A lot of today's musicians are more like DJs with some musical background -- and a lot of them are increasingly YOUNG. Kids aren't necessarily into the same types of big, expensive workstations that their fathers prefer.

Exactly what I say... Kids are not gonna learn on something like this anymore.. and parents ain't gonna buy this for them to learn either.... Ipads and ipods got them spoiled now a days.. I still think this is the WS's final attempt... I don't think Roland will follow in this path as the G in my opinion was their final attempt.. I don't even think a Vsynth crossed with Fantom could help them now...

If you like Rockband 3 on your PS , not to far (Actually Ed already informed you in his youtube video's how seriously Roland should be taken these days)

I've been listening to Korg Kronos demos and I must confess I'm not THAT impressed. Yeah, most of the sounds are pumped-up, they have seamless sound transition, they're clearly going in the right direction but I have to admit that XF (which is nothing but a cosmetical and upgraded XS) sounds better.
Korg pianos are still crap. Their sustained body sound is now better (kinda yammy style) but they still feel artificial to me. What's the point of minutes unlooped samples is beyond me - as long as they say "dynamic voice allocation will solve polyphony limitations". Not so much with piano sounds. Dynamic voice allocation or not, if the poly is not good enough, you're screwed.
Electrical pianos are going to be subjective. I admit I liked SV electric pianos (they had a certain personality) but they're still not quite "there".
Synths, on the other hand, were the big surprise. Well-done and flexible interface, neat and task-oriented display, it's like a V-synth ripoff. Good job.
Organs are nice but I like Numa Organ better. For me is Hammond XK3 > Numa Organ > Roland VK > Korg Kronos. Yeah, I know, the Numa Organ only does organ sounds and it costs quite a lot, so it's obvious a digital workstation won't have the same love as a dedicated organ.
Wavestation module - ? dunno how useful will be. It's good as an extra.
Plucked string module is nice on paper but I still prefer XF guitar samples. Maybe you have to tweak it a little more to get the right satisfaction. Actual demos are quite weak IMO. But hey - it might be a powerful tool for further synthesis.
The wave-playback module is your meat-and-potatoes sound generator. Very Triton-similar sounding, nothing to be amazed about. It will probably get the max polyphony but the most average sounds.
The trick Korg did with this product was it's like a Fantom-G with all the possible ARX expansions already included.
Don't fret about it yet, it's a deal breaker on 2 distinct issues:
- polyphony
- price

If it's set more at a OASYS price than a FG price - then FG is still competitive at this point.
If the polyphony on the "bell and whistles" modules is quite low (I mean V-synth low) then it's nothing to fret about, you'll still need to rely mostly on wave-playback engine. Which is - IMO - weaker sounding than FG. And weaker yet than XF. (too bad XF has such a cumbersome interface unchanged since SY series in the nineties)

One good thing is that Korg have proved multiple engines can and should be done, so I hope that gives the others a kick. They can't go back now. I said in another FG thread that roland should do this with their existing technology and it has been done.... by Korg. I'm not a Korg fan really, but this sounds very impressive on the demo. Still If Roland did the same thing and gave us their SuperNatural EPs an APs, clone wheels and a bunch of synths (D-50, JP-8000, V-Synth, XV engine) etc under one roof in a Fantom G style enclosure (no pads on the Korg...) that would get me really excited, as I have various Roland synths already and like em.

Is it just me or does the Kronos design look dated? Or are we about to re-live the 90s?

Well, I haven't given up hope just yet for a fabulous new workstation from Roland.

Roland has invested a lot of time and money in developing V-technology, and over the years it has spawned some really interesting instruments.
ARX was designed to provide a platform for expansions based on V-technology, but these expansions did not quite catch on.

Roland is a master in re-shuffling elements from existing products and combining them into one new instrument.
So, with all this technology available in past (and current) instruments and expansion cards, why not make one killer workstation based on V-technology?

I'm sure that a lot of people would love to see the V-piano, V-synth, V-drums, VA, a V-organ etc combined in one workstation, preferably equiped with flash memory so that sample based instruments can be directly accessed from flash memory.
Create more flexibility in the file system and effects set-up, make sure the workstation can read some basic sample formats, adjust the sequencer so that it is not pattern-based anymore, and you got a potential killer workstation.

I'm a longtime XP-80 and Fantom X7 (as well as some old Jupiter/Juno/JX series) user and "almost" a Roland fan, but...

Roland could have had the best workstation if they only did not make the Fantom G. The right decision after the FanX would have been (my hope for some years): A completely new workstation with all SRX-sounds, the V-engine, VK-organ, a sort of MV-8800 sequencer and some internal gb or fast loading usb... all integrated. They already had all these things but not in one instrument, because they wanted to sell all this separately. It would have been the best workstation with no "new" developments but just everything integrated in one. It would have been possible. Instead they gave us Fantom G.

But Korg did exactly what I wished for years Roland would do: Put it all together in one.

The FanG took unnecessary "development energy" and Roland missed the chance. Now it's too late for Roland to go down this road. If they decided to do so NOW, the above mentioned sounds and engines will be a little outdated and inferior to Korg's. Roland missed the chance to put their best things together and decided to wait until others do it, so that Roland's stuff is outdated...

Now the development of a new workstation will be more expensive and a bigger risk for Roland. They will have to find something new/better than Korg and that will be difficult, expensive and time consuming... Sometimes I doubt Roland ever will/wants to make a new "flagship" workstation again.

EDIT: The reason for all this may be that they absolutely ignored the needs and wants of their customers. They just refused to listen to us...

I don't think the Fantom G is light years behind. It has a nice screen, I like the feel of the G7 keyboard. The sounds are very useful in my productions. And to boot, I am finally getting use to the whole "Project" concept.

While I put the Korg Kronos at the top of my must have list, if the going rate is $4000, I probably have to opt out, (my wife will never approve). I already have the MS20 on my iPad. But wavesequencing is very attractive, especially if it's a little more friendly to MIDI clock sync'ing than in the past. (I could change the battery in my original wavestation and revive it.)

I have the Motif XS, and I am awaiting the long over due upgrade, as if tap tempo is going to make a difference in my music. (And I have reservations about Karma, I don't think it well be much fun unless it's built in and directly intergrated into the workstation, arranger/arp style)

I not selling my M3 either. Karma 2 is still fun, the sounds are still bright.

I upgraded my PC3 to OS version2.0, it's still the same keyboard I bought about a year ago, sounds good but the screen is very old school and I have no clue even how to operate the sequencer.

Atlas:

I like that. It sounds to me like you have a good attitude towards your music and your gear.

- Sammy

Sammy:

That is funny...I am glad he is not into hurting his gears feelings! LOL!

HA!!! Yes, it is always best to treat one's gears with respect...



- El Samamundo

I was really looking forward to a new workstation v synth hybrid this year. Especially with the talk on here about a Fantom V... Can't really say that I'm too disapointed though. I still find myself happy as hell to own an instrument like the Fantom X6. Times are changing, and the hardware market is suffering for that reason. I believe that the Fantom G could have really developed into something if the market had driven it in that direction. I'm not taking anything away from the G, it is an incredable instrument on it's own, and seems to do everything it was developed to do very well. I think that if the G had sold better, Roland would have developed more ARX technology and even developed improved operating systems for the G. As in a version 2, 2.5. etc with new features added. It seems to me that a lot of the people on this forum in particular tend to buy things looking forward to what the product may become, instead of what it is. Most of the "bugs" dont really get fixed because there are simple work arounds. I really don't want to open a can of worms, or piss anyone off here... Just my thoughts. Most of us here are long time Roland fans. I know I am, and I love finally being able to share that love, along with my ideas and opinions with like minded people all over the world. Artimio: I love the forum that you have created. What you have done with the tweekbooks alone is incredable. You have helped myself and many others truely learn the depths of these instruments. I have to say though, that at times I feel that we may be losing you to software. Not a bad thing for you... But could be disaster for fans of Roland here. Happy new year my friends!

well, there's really no win for roland anyway... meaning, if they released a new arx, people will still complain they wanted somethign else or about the price again.

if they released a software update for the FG, people will complain there's no touchpanel and no new arx.

if they released a FantomV then FG owners would be pissed they were abandoned.

at the end of the day, we're all going to get Korgs now. hahaha.