SRX10 Brass Discussion - If Roland Did THIS, They Know How T - Fantom-S and Fantom-X

SRX10 Brass Discussion - If Roland Did THIS, They Know How T

28 Dec 2008, 13:05

I recently purchased the Roland LCD-X-3 Brass and Woodwinds CD and not to my surprise, almost every waveform that Roland has used on their ROMpler synths (JV to the Fantom) were present either as samples or Patches.

I also purchased the SRX10 Brass and wondered whether the sounds contained within the $250 SRX Board had any similarities or connection to the ones on the CD. I then opened up Kontakt 3 (although I do own the Roland XV5080) and did some messing around with the attacks and spacial settings of the CD patches.

After cutting of the attack portion of the ADSR, and adding some saturation and stereo modeling effects, voila, the sounds on the SRX are almost identical to the ones found on the almost 15 year old CD.

This just left me wondering (and needlessly so). Does Roland do this routinely? And more importantly, has Roland put out an authentically new library of sounds since the SRJV days sans the ARX boards?

Re: SRX10 Brass Discussion - If Roland Did THIS, They Know H

28 Dec 2008, 15:08

I'm not sure what to understand from what you say. Let me put it simpler: you get something and make it shittier, in order to sound in line with an earlier product. This is no much help for me. I would be convinced if you'd apply the same "saturation and stereo modeling effects" on the OLDER stuff in order to make it sound NEWER, like on the SRX boards. Anybody can downgrade a sound to a croak, sorry, don't need to be an expert to do that. (and I bet I'm NOT one)

Re: SRX10 Brass Discussion - If Roland Did THIS, They Know H

24 Jan 2009, 14:19

You misunderstood what I said here. Many of the sounds on the SRX10 Brass CD ARE from the 15 year old Roland Brass Sample CD. They just did some filtering tricks, ADSR work, and phattened up the raw waveforms using pseudo-stereo and chorus effects. If you AB many of the sounds THEY ARE identical.

Using Kontakt, I was ABLE to make all of the old Roland CD stuff sound EXACTLY like the SRX10 Board.

Re: SRX10 Brass Discussion - If Roland Did THIS, They Know H

24 Jan 2009, 17:52

The question I find myself asking is . . . just how much is a quality 'sample' of a trumpet supposed to change in 15 years? The engineers at Roland are smart! If I were them, I wouldn't think twice about using existing samples to keep the cost of 'new' product down. Why 'throw the baby out with the bath water'? =)

Cheers!
PiaKnowGuy
Watch a video of - Some Guitar Shredding Done entirely on the X8!

PiaKnow

PiaKnowGuy
Please feel free to listen to Pirates
[img]http://www.piaknow.com/1goldpiaknowlogonew-thumbnail-thumbnail.jpg[/img]
PiaKnow

Re: SRX10 Brass Discussion - If Roland Did THIS, They Know H

25 Jan 2009, 04:32

So what? I think you're wrong on this one. I don't care if the samples are 100 years old, as long they're wonderfully mastered. You REALLY must remember what you said:

Your 2 statements are NOT identical. There's one thing to say about Roland they used the same raw samples as 15 years ago (with obvious new means and results), and a TOTALLY different thing to say you employed some sort of smartass reverse-engineering on Roland SRX-10 waves to make them sound like 15 years ago....

Re: SRX10 Brass Discussion - If Roland Did THIS, They Know H

25 Jan 2009, 06:36

Either way, I have to say I'm disappointed with the lack of improvement in wave samples. I had a JV-1010 and upgraded to a Fantom XR with some SRX cards. Alas, the best sounds for me (my preference is for natural "real" intrument sounds), are on the SRX cards that are collections of the old JV cards. We have better fidelity, new features, and old sounds. Many instruments remain abysmal for authenticity (electric guitars, sax, etc). Memory is cheap these days, I can't understand why we continue to have new synths with old sounds.

Re: SRX10 Brass Discussion - If Roland Did THIS, They Know H

25 Jan 2009, 07:38

Well, back to those days people used to complain a lot about polyphony and other missing features so synth manufacturers went into that direction (not to mention they lost a fortune developing hardware only to be beaten by cheaper software equivalents), instead of focusing into what's the main purpose of a musical instrument: sounds and sound creation. They couldn't do both: either pick any "enter your favourite synth name from the 80's / 90's here" with 128 notes of polyphony or develop a mind-blowing new synth - but alas, with much less than the average polyphony of those days (sometimes even monophonic). Given the fact most ppl are not synth wizards (people are a hell lot lazier these days), it's kinda understandable why they chose the 128 note feature-packed workstation-type variant. Rompler, presets, more presets, "look, ma, it sings by itself!"

Re: SRX10 Brass Discussion - If Roland Did THIS, They Know H

25 Jan 2009, 07:51

I was going to argue with Parsifal... But I guess he's somewhat right. The V-Synth *is* a mind-blowing synth with novel, unheard-before sound, but the real-world polyphony is in the range of 5-6 voices if you use it to the max. It is 10-12 on the GT, though.

Re: SRX10 Brass Discussion - If Roland Did THIS, They Know H

25 Jan 2009, 10:24

Yeah, I agree too, Parsifal - I remember the days of limited polyphony. The fetaures we have now ARE quite incredible and 16 effects channels on the G is impressive too. Roland seem to be investing heavily into modelling at the moment and I can only wish them well, but I just wonder when or even if the ROMplers are get some refreshing and quality ROM

Re: SRX10 Brass Discussion - If Roland Did THIS, They Know H

25 Jan 2009, 10:33

It's interesting that Roland isn't jumping onto the VA modeling bandwagon with others. I think they do really admit that it's pointless, and it's almost impossible to come up with something that sounds really new, mainly because all is bound to the classic analog synth circuitry dating back to 1950's.

Re: SRX10 Brass Discussion - If Roland Did THIS, They Know H

25 Jan 2009, 11:38

I guess then I have to learn how to be a bit more articulate as you're not really getting what I am saying. If "So What" is your response, then your lack of enthusiasm or care is received and understood by me. Perhaps I shouldn't have made this thread in the first place.

The two statements I made were related. I guess through using Kontakt, I was able to reverse engineer the SRX Board using Kontakt's effects.

To figure out whether or not the sounds were identical just involved me shutting off the effects added to the waveforms of the patches in the SRX, AND shutting off some of the PARTS for AB-ing and comparison.

It really isn't that serious I guess. It just gave me a reason to sell my SRX Brass board and use Kontakt plus my Roland Brass CD. I could just use the extra slot for another SRX Board.

Re: SRX10 Brass Discussion - If Roland Did THIS, They Know H

25 Jan 2009, 11:54

Epu, relax. You haven't discovered the wheel

You may still have that sample CD from 15 years ago but most people has no such advantage. (also you may be a brilliant sound engineer which is also none of my bussiness)
Most people will only compare it with present-day competing products and act accordingly. You're free to be dissapointed from a subjective point of view but try to see it in a more optimistic way: you've had THESE sounds for 15 years, while we weren't that lucky

Re: SRX10 Brass Discussion - If Roland Did THIS, They Know H

25 Jan 2009, 12:00

Epu,

SRX10 Brass Discussion - If Roland Did THIS, They Know How To Make $$

I guess then I have to learn how to be a bit more articulate as you're not really getting what I am saying. If "So What" is your response, then your lack of enthusiasm or care is received and understood by me. Perhaps I shouldn't have made this thread in the first place.

This is a forum, defined as 'an assembly or meeting place for the discussion of questions of public interest'. To use the word in your original post invites participation. I personally find it disgusting that I have to discuss discussing discussion!

sRa

[img]http://www.piaknow.com/vacation/Animation%201.gif[/img]

Re: SRX10 Brass Discussion - If Roland Did THIS, They Know H

25 Jan 2009, 12:29

Lol. Agreed. I was "discussing".

Speaking of present day products, I have had the opportunity to hear the ARX Brass Board for the new Fantom G and wasn't very impressed.

While this is a Roland forum, there are some kick ass packages for the software side that sound VERY promising. Like this, Mojo from Vir2 instruments:

http://www.vir2.com/4DCGI/vir2/products/mojo/index.html?1205