Jupiter 80 - worst midi controller ever

I wonder how childish people react on valid points people bring up. It can only help to improve or find someone that knows a way to do it. I thought this is the main purpose of such a forum. We all love/like our JU80 otherwise we would not care.

I did not read the manual in it's entire depth when I purchased my Ju 80 in advance. I also found out later, that it is not possible to set sounds in a liveset or registration to local off mode to be played by a connected midi keyboard. That truely shocked me, because to play 4 different sound on 76 keys limits you drasticly (this feature has already my old and simple nova). I wanted to play a bass or guitar sound with midi pedals, two different pads (one split) on the JU-80 and a solo sound with a connected midi keyboard. How can I integrate the JU 80 performance keyboard into a live keyboard setup if it does not allow me to use it sounds by an external keyboard exclusively?
I cannot take full advantage of the 256 voices by just using 76 keys. For a solo I need 2-3octaves, for pad sounds also 2-3 octaves and than what to do with the other voices. Where to play bass or piano sound? It´s like having a Ferrari with just 4 gears.

Frank Aufmoog wrote:

it is not possible to set sounds in a liveset or registration to local off mode to be played by a connected midi keyboard. That truely schocked me, because to play 4 different sound on 76 keys limits you drasticly (this feature has already my old and simple nova). I wanted to play a bass or guitar sound with midi pedals, two different pads (one split) on the JU-80 and a solo sound with a connected midi keyboard. How can I integrate the JU 80 performance keyboard into a live keyboard setup if it does not allow me to use it sounds by an external keyboard exclusively?

You can set each of the 4 parts to respond to a different MIDI channel... are you saying that you can't assign a part (upper, lower, perc, solo) to a MIDI channel without also specifying that it respond to a range of keys on the board itself? That would indeed be surprising. So you can't, for example, trigger its piano from an attached 88, while playing different sounds (using some combination of the remaining three parts) from the Jupiter's own keyboard?

Of course they're valid points - no-one is disputing that. Indeed if someone is considering buying a JP-80 and they do a search, visit here and get the low-down - good and bad - then that is a good thing and the forum has served its purpose well.

However, as pianknowguy stated it's not the the 'what', it's the 'how' it's put.

The JP-80 is not crap because of this midi limitation - or that you highlight.

I don't use midi other than for clock rate - and even then the JP-80 is around 80% as a slave. It works perfectly. So for me, such a limitation is irrelevant. I accept for others it can be a deal-breaker.

But this endless tirade we are subjected to is becoming increasingly tedious. Every keyboard has its limitations. No doubt we will be soon hearing how crap the Integra-7 is.

But in a balanced forum there also has to be those that highlight the good. And the JP-80 is an amazingly powerful creative keyboard, with huge potential, is getting great support and commitment from Roland and is deceptively easy to use. Fair enough, there are weaknesses (for some) - no keyboard is perfect for everyone.

Lesson is - if something is important to how one works with a keyboard - test it first!

Frank Aufmoog wrote:

...I wanted to play a bass or guitar sound with midi pedals, two different pads (one split) on the JU-80 and a solo sound with a connected midi keyboard. How can I integrate the JU 80 performance keyboard into a live keyboard setup if it does not allow me to use it sounds by an external keyboard exclusively?

What you are demanding is very easily achievable with the push of a single or two buttons!!!

Look at the 4 Part On/Off buttons under the 4 Volume Level sliders. Turn those parts off, which you want to control via the Bass Pedal and the external midi keybaord. Those parts of course won't sound on the JP-80 anymore, because you've just turned them off, but they are still playable and audible via external controllers and you can still use the JP-80's Part Level faders to control their volume...

It speaks for itself that you must of course choose the corresponding MIDI channels on your controllers to the MIDI channels of those JP-80 parts you want to control....
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anotherscott wrote:

Frank Aufmoog wrote:

it is not possible to set sounds in a liveset or registration to local off mode to be played by a connected midi keyboard. That truely schocked me, because to play 4 different sound on 76 keys limits you drasticly (this feature has already my old and simple nova). I wanted to play a bass or guitar sound with midi pedals, two different pads (one split) on the JU-80 and a solo sound with a connected midi keyboard. How can I integrate the JU 80 performance keyboard into a live keyboard setup if it does not allow me to use it sounds by an external keyboard exclusively?

You can set each of the 4 parts to respond to a different MIDI channel... are you saying that you can't assign a part (upper, lower, perc, solo) to a MIDI channel without also specifying that it respond to a range of keys on the board itself? That would indeed be surprising. So you can't, for example, trigger its piano from an attached 88, while playing different sounds (using some combination of the remaining three parts) from the Jupiter's own keyboard?

I mean within a liveset, if I have for example two unused slots, I cannot assign these voices to external exclusively usage. They are lost.

Frank Aufmoog wrote:

I mean within a liveset, if I have for example two unused slots, I cannot assign these voices to external exclusively usage. They are lost.

Oh. That I knew... it is only 4-part multi-timbral (though two of the parts can have layered sounds).

But as long as you can split those 4 parts among its own keyboard and external MIDI input, I don't see your issue. i.e. it sounds like that much functionality is sufficient for what you want, "to play a bass or guitar sound with midi pedals, two different pads (one split) on the JU-80 and a solo sound with a connected midi keyboard" so I'm not seeing the problem. Trigger the "perc" part (bass sound) from the pedals, and the two pads from the Jupiter's own keyboard (either Upper and Lower; or even just one of those, since you can also split tones within an Upper or Lower Live Set), and finally trigger the "solo" part from the separate MIDI keyboard. No?

Frank Aufmoog wrote:

I mean within a liveset, if I have for example two unused slots, I cannot assign these voices to external exclusively usage. They are lost.

All 4 SN-Tones of a Liveset share the same MIDI channel. It's therfore impossible to do what you want within a single Liveset. But in the whole, as I've described in my previous post, you can exactly achieve what you were asking for with the Jupiter-80, at least on 4 MIDI channels.

If you want more, then Roland has the "answer" for you:

Buy an INTEGRA-7 as a supplement for your JP-80, which allows you to control 16 single SN-Tones at a time on 16 different MIDI channels...

That's how they make money...;)
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Dany wrote:

Now honestly folks! Did anyone of you really check the capabilities of the JP-80 as a MIDI controller for external gear, when you've purchased this synth? Didn't you assume, it will be on the average standard of todays workstations and synths in this regard?

I didn't think about this issue, because I don't use the JP-80 as a controller. I control it with the OASYS, which gives me more options than the JP-80 itself, because I can control all four JP-80 MIDI zones independently at the same time. This doesn't work on the JP-80 itself, because on the JP-80 you can only control the Livesets, but not the Perc and Solo Part with the four real time knobs, because Roland limited those functions by purpose! But the OASYS openes up all of those self-imposed and puposefully created Roland limits.

I think mojkarma has of course the right to complain about the lack of functionality of the JP-80 as an external controller, which are again purposefully created and self-imposed limits by Roland.

Roland is puposefully restricting their products by those self-imposed limits, because that's their way to further sales of their hardware. So you have to buy a JP-80 and an A-88 MIDI controller and an Integra-7 with an iPad, if you really want it all!

But as a stand-alone Instrument or if controlled by external controllers, the Jupiter-80 is just the most expressive and most accessible synth ever built up to this day, with a unique sound quality that is beyond anything I've heard so far in my life!

But I dislike the kind of tribal (JP-80) group thinking, which doesn't allow critical reflections, based on facts! So mojkarma has the right to complain about those FACTS! He would only be a troll, if those weren't facts!
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since when is trolling only considered "not telling the truth?" I've been around long enough to know it when I see it. That's why he has been on my ignore list for over a year. There are plenty of trolls out there who engage in a conversation with "facts" and do it in a way to just provoke a reaction. Just look at that topic he wrote and read everything he has posted so far over the three years he has been here.

I've had some critism about the board, but it is not to the magnitude of hate like that man. I'm wondering right now how a JP80 landed in his screwball hands!

Dany wrote:

Roland is puposefully restricting their products by those self-imposed limits, because that's their way to further sales of their hardware. So you have to buy a JP-80 and an A-88 MIDI controller and an Integra-7 with an iPad, if you really want it all!
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I don't think it's fair to state your perceptions of their motives as facts. We don't know why the limitations exist, but I would actually doubt it's to get someone to buy a JP-80, A-88, and Integra-7... because honestly, I would be very surprised if many people will actually end up buying all three of those things!

If "mojkarma" really doesn't own a JP-80 and is just agitating and pretending, then he is simply a liar and deserves indeed no respect nor any responses from honest forum members...

I think the INTEGRA-7 devalues the JP-80 to a certain degree, because it contains more SN Acoustic Tones. And let's not forget when Roland released the JP-80, their main focus of the JP-80 promotion were those new SN Acoustic Tones, by explaining, that the purpose of the original JP-8 was to reproduce real acoustic instruments as realistically as possible with the available technology at that time and that the JP-80 represents the successor of this philosophy, based on the latest available Roland technology...
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Sorry for not discribing my needs accurate. I would highly appreciate if it would be possible to set the sounds in a liveset to different midi channels and to local off. I do not need 4 time layer always so up to 6 voices are on mute and I cannot use them by assign them to a another keyboard. I really love my JU 80 but I can't afford to buy another one to have that options. With 256 voices you should have 10 multitimbral voices that is still 25 osc. per voice. Sometimes I layer bass sounds to get deep and punchy basses and the perc part does not give me the option. Also the bass pedal does not allow me to switch between different midi channels during a song so it will always trigger the perc part. But in the next scene I want to start the arpeggiator with the pedals or play a heavy guitar pad of layered sounds. It would be more flexible to set the channels in the reg or liveset so when you switch to another reg/liveset it can control other parts.

cello wrote:
And the JP-80 is an amazingly powerful creative keyboard, with huge potential, is getting great support and commitment from Roland and is deceptively easy to use. Fair enough, there are weaknesses (for some) - no keyboard is perfect for everyone.

I second that emotion Neil.

I was somewhat dismayed when I went and tried to set up My JP-80 in my rig because I did not have 4 MIDI channels available since they are all tied up on other gear. As it is, I have already had to unplug several pieces of kit and plug them in only when needed. So, I set all MIDI channels on the 80 to the same channel and then experienced the obvious issues. I also did not at first welcome the whole "Registration/Live Set/Tone/Partial" architecture thing but have since recognized the reasoning behind it for live performance.

Nevertheless, I have been able to work around these limitations in my own way. That said, everytime I play the JP-80 I am more than happy with the crystal clear sounds that emanate from it. If I had known about the Integra (and these MIDI limitations) would I have purchased the JP-80? Probably not, because it was not a perfect fit in my rig but does that mean I am unhappy with the purchase and would sell it?

No, no no man! What a heavy duty na dbeautiful sounding piece of gear and along with the Integra will provide enough sonic material for years.

I think slamming the JP-80 for its limitations in the "MIDI control" area is missing the point that it was designed and sold as a "live performance synth". Could it be better? Well of course but who amongst us all is perfect?

And the debate goes on..."quot homines...tot sententiae!"

Every post by Mr Mojokarma is either a rude comment, or contradiction to get someones arousal!! He has been commenting ever since he "Supposedly" bought a Jup 80 how it Sucks Big Time. He also believes the Fantom G sounds better?

So if my calculations are correct he is either
A) An absolute dumbass for buying a JP80 to begin with
B) He has never owned one and likes provoking us to get under everyones skin

Dany wrote:

If "mojkarma" really doesn't own a JP-80 and is just agitating and pretending, then he is simply a liar and deserves indeed no respect nor any responses from honest forum members...

Dany, you are far to short time on this forum to actually understand some of those people who barely ever scratched the surface of the JP80 but they go crazy if you dare to post anything but praises about this keyboard.
I usually hate to prove something, but here you are:





The second one shows your name and my nick in the lower liveset.
For some reason I can't make them bigger.

Now, let me comment on a couple of funny posts here.

cello wrote:

Please sell it so that you can stop trashing it - not everyone hates the JP-80; some of us even love it (strange though that may seem to you)

The midi issue you talk about is not a factor for me so utterly irrelevant.

Midi is for you utterly irrelevant? And that gives you the right to advice me what to do? How about ignoring this topic? If something is irrelevant to me, why on earth would I jump in and comment on something what I consider "utterly irrelevant"? Just because I can't deal with a negative comment about a tool?

lekanout wrote:

And don't be blind to buy a synth you hate!
All information about gear is availaible everywhere(shop,internet..)

Really? Can you point me to the information where it says that the sliders or at least the circular knobs don't transmit midi data to the midi out? Actually, I contributed now to the knowledge about the jp80 and somebody will maybe find this information useful. This is internet, isn't it?

lekanout wrote:

so buying gear and discovering all you can't do with after is more a geek attitude than a serious musician attitude.

I know, it's not clear from my initial post, but this is the problem. When you buy a keyboard, you buy it for what you need at that time. But at a later point, you may have to accomplish some tasks which you weren't aware at the time of the purchase. So, my first post in this topic is not the result of myself being bored and wanting to provoke anybody here. I got recently a job in a band where I have to use quite a lot of samples. I knew that the jp80 doesn't have a sampler. No problem with that. So, I want to use my laptop for that task. And than the problem appears which is described in my first post. That's the story. No bashing intention on my side.

kokocalamar wrote:

My suggestion to you: if you wake up every morning crying your eyes out over the fact that you didn't do enought research before you bought the JP-80

How do you research about something which you don't know that you will need it at a later point?

PauloF wrote:

JP-80 is NOT definetely a Master Midi Kbd controller! That we know

Excuse me?! Did YOU read the manual?
Page 91: Using the JUPITER-80 as a Master Keyboard (External Part Settings)
This keyboard can control 16 external parts, send MSB, LSB, PC, zone range, volume, pan, octave shift.
The manual even contains a picture where a module is connected to the JP80.
Roland even forces that V-Link thing on every upper class keyboard they made in the last 6 years, which absolutely nobody uses but they can't program those few sliders on the jp80 to send data to midi out.

PauloF wrote:

Just don't get why you with your experience did't read the manuals before buying

How do you read that information out from the manual? Please, enlighten me. Where does it say in the manual that for example the joystick sends midi data out, while the sliders/knobs don't?

piaknowguy wrote:

I don't think the issue's so much 'why' he posted, rather 'how' he posted.

That's the interesting part:
Say something good about the keyboard, no matter how unreal it is, it's perfectly fine for everybody.
Say something bad and explain it with arguments, and no matter how real it is, you are considered a troll.

Devnor wrote:

It's the same shit, different day and it's been going on for over a year now. Probably a passive aggressive thing...his life sucks so he's got some need to constantly interject negativity into the Jupiter forum. Maybe his parents spanked him last night. "mojo" doesn't own a JU80 anymore than the man in the moon.

I suppose that you are not on the cognitive level to understand it, but the topic here is about the jp80 being the worst midi controller ever. It's not created to make personal attacks because you don't understand the problem or you feel sad because somebody said a bad word about your toy.
Let's see what about you.
This is what you said about why the jupiter is great for live use?

Powerful controllers? D-beam, assignable knobs, tone blender + shuffle.

I cut out the rest because it's a copy/paste from the specs list.
That's your level of knowledge about the keyboard: answering a question by quoting the specification list. Tell me, which experience is your answer based on? How did you get the impression that there are powerful controllers?
Here another gem from you, on another topic here. I just copied it over.

Devnor wrote:

You've been wrong about everything else but even a broken clock tells the correct time twice a day.

That says a person who wrote the following answer, when he was asked to explain as an owner about how many reverb units are there in the jp80:

All parts/tones share the same reverb.

Even a broken clock tells the correct time twice a day. Maybe. Welcome to the club.

And my personal favorite this year:

gfan80 wrote:

since when is trolling only considered "not telling the truth?" I've been around long enough to know it when I see it. That's why he has been on my ignore list for over a year. There are plenty of trolls out there who engage in a conversation with "facts" and do it in a way to just provoke a reaction. Just look at that topic he wrote and read everything he has posted so far over the three years he has been here.

What to say?
gfan80 said once here how he will never buy any keyboard from Korg anymore because he can't order spare parts directly from Korg. Instead, Korg asked him to contact the authorized dealer who sells that same spare parts. I was trying to explain to him that there is no difference whether he orders a broken key replacement from Korg directly or from an appointed dealer. It's so irrelevant whether the package comes from Korg or from XYZ as long as you get the spare part you need.
But strangely, he felt offended by my words like a little girl who gets her lollipop stolen and put me on the (non existing) ignore list. Nota bene, for a year. After that period of my severe punishment I gained some mercy back from him and instead of keeping ignoring me, he went religiously thru all my 600 posts.
Keep it going gfan80. You may read my post and learn something from it (whether you like the tone or not) or you may stick with Devnor. You won't have to deal with my passive aggressive thing in that case. Instead you'll believe that the jp80 has great controllers and one reverb unit.

At the end, hello RayS. I still remember your first post after you bought the jp80. I was really enjoying your review about it:
http://forums.rolandclan.com/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=38339

Wait a moment. It's not a review. Your review starts and ends with the first sentence. The rest is a bashing about a keyboard from an other company: pathetic, feels like a toy, cheesy, screwy, stupid, total chaos and confusion, chore,...That's obviously acceptable here when other keyboards are described. Suddenly, the "how" and "why" is not a problem at all.
But it's a big problem when there is a complain about the jp80, regardless how well it's documented.
There is nothing more to say about this controller issue from my side. I'll keep posting my personal reviews based on my intensive user experience in the last 7 months. And you are free to comment and call me however you like.

mojkarma wrote:

the topic here is about the jp80 being the worst midi controller ever.

To be fair, that is a bit of hyperbole. There are numerous worse controllers. Including the Jupiter 50, which I think has all the same issues as the Jupiter 80, but has no aftertouch, so has even one less way to alter the sound! I can think of some other worse controllers, from Roland and others. But it's too depressing to think about. ;-)