New INTEGRA-7 SN-Acoustic Instrument Models for JP-80?

Yes, I was thinking exactly same thing.
As far as I research Integra7, they are clearly saying THIS IS IMPROVED VERSION OF PREVIOUS SN SOUND.
which means, most of our SN in Jupiter 80 will be old now.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AArxdydlZGk

this video shows how improved some of sound in SN.

So, I am not sure at this point if Roland releases brush-up SN for Jupiter 80.

Dany wrote:

Will we JP-80 users (who had to pay more than the double amount than INTEGRA-7 users) ever receive those new INTEGRA-7 SN Acoustic Instrument Models or/and the SN Drum Model in a future update?

Of course not. You get what you paid for when you bought your jp80 as is. Besides that, Roland is pretty much fast in throwing new products out of the window when sales doesn't work well as expected and that's obviously the case with the jp80. Just remember the original Fantom 12 years ago. It didn't have a sampler and the sales were very bad. Roland released a completely new Fantom (-S) in one year and rendered the previous one obsolete.
And at this time, the sales for the jp80/50 will be even much worse IMHO. I can't see a reason why somebody would pay the asked money for it when you have the same soundsource and even a lot more sounds in the Integra. The only reason would be to get 256 notes polyphony and a serial effect structure.

Finally, it's a question about what's possible with the jp80/50 hardware. The SN modeling is still based on using samples. And samples require memory. It's questionable whether there is memory on the jp80/50 available for additional sounds or performance articulations.

mojkarma wrote:

...Roland is pretty much fast in throwing new products out of the window when sales doesn't work well as expected and that's obviously the case with the jp80...

...Roland released a completely new Fantom (-S) in one year and rendered the previous one obsolete...

...And at this time, the sales for the jp80/50 will be even much worse IMHO. I can't see a reason why somebody would pay the asked money for it when you have the same soundsource and even a lot more sounds in the Integra...

...It's questionable whether there is memory on the jp80/50 available for additional sounds or performance articulations...

I see your points. But Roland made a big ballyhoo about how important the JP-80 is for them and their founder. They used the most famous name of their legacy, in order to stress the importance of the JP-80 in their currrent product line, as their most important child.

If Roland is indeed following your suggested marketing strategy, because of allegedly low JP-80 sales, then they are giving the JP-80 the final deathblow (reagarding future JP-80 sales) with the INTEGRA-7 and of course with their next workstation, which we can expect probably quite soon, representing a kind of INTEGRA-7 (possibly with the double amount of voices and even more SN-models) with a built in sequencer and sampling options.

As the JP-80 was released under time pressure, as a kind of unfinished product (hence the later release of Version-2), I really hope for a JP-80 Version 3 update or some payable options, which will keep the JP-80 competitive in Roland's OWN product line !!!
Apart from possible hardware limitations you've mentioned, there is still plenty of room for improvements, which would be achievable with a Version 3 update, even with the current JP-80 hardware.

Let's see what the announced mysterious "Jupiter Legacy Collection" will at least bring to the table. But if the rumors are true, that the Legacy Collection will also be available for the INTEGRA-7, then it won't do anything to further future JP-80 sales...

So what you are saying is, that the Jupiter-80 is already written of by Roland as a piece of their (in-)famous legacy ?!?
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Purely my own hunch and in no way scientific, but it doesn't make sense to me that the JP-80 is being 'sunsetted' so soon.

There's more to come for the JP-80. :)

cello wrote:

Purely my own hunch and in no way scientific, but it doesn't make sense to me that the JP-80 is being 'sunsetted' so soon.

There's more to come for the JP-80. :)

Of course it isn't being sunsetted.

Mojkarma is makina a lot of assumptions regarding JP-80 sales, probably based on guesses. (Unless he has access to priviliged corporation information, which I doubt.)

Having said that, I don't mind speculating! :-)

Soon: LEGACY COLLECTION!!

The JP-80 is far from even remotely close to being "sunsetted" ..rather the opposite is true. You never know what you might find being developed for it. Even new SN tones .....

Dany wrote:

As the JP-80 was released under time pressure, as a kind of unfinished product (hence the later release of Version-2)

I don't think it makes sense to call the original release "unfinished." It did the things it was supposed to do perfectly well. In a sense, software is never finished. it just eventually has to ship... there's always more that can be done, but as long as it does the things it says it will and does them reliably, that shipping version is done when it ships.

We really don't know whether the Jupiter 80 was supposed to ship with the 2.0 feature set from the start but it was taking too long, or if they always intended the 2.0 features to come later, or even if they only added some of the 2.0 features after getting dealer and other feedback on the 1.0 version they shipped.

No matter what, people can put a negative spin on things. Roland announces an update the following year? The original was unfinished. Roland doesn't issue an update to address product shortcomings or enhance its functionality? They're not supporting the product. ;-)

anotherscott wrote:

Dany wrote:

As the JP-80 was released under time pressure, as a kind of unfinished product (hence the later release of Version-2)

I don't think it makes sense to call the original release "unfinished." It did the things it was supposed to do perfectly well. In a sense, software is never finished. it just eventually has to ship... there's always more that can be done, but as long as it does the things it says it will and does them reliably, that shipping version is done when it ships.

We really don't know whether the Jupiter 80 was supposed to ship with the 2.0 feature set from the start but it was taking too long, or if they always intended the 2.0 features to come later, or even if they only added some of the 2.0 features after getting dealer and other feedback on the 1.0 version they shipped.

No matter what, people can put a negative spin on things. Roland announces an update the following year? The original was unfinished. Roland doesn't issue an update to address product shortcomings or enhance its functionality? They're not supporting the product. ;-)

Your points are mainly a discussion about the semantics of the word "unfinished" in context of software development.

The relevant point of my previous posts can be put into the following question:

Do you like to see the new and improved SN-Acoustic Instrument Models (and/or the V-Drum Model) from the INTEGRA-7 in the JP-80 in the future, if the JP-80 hardware would be capable for such an update and is it helpful to post such wishes in this forum, considering that some folks from Roland might sometimes read all of this?
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I myself will not read too much into what this Keyboard rag bloke said regarding the Integra-7 being "more than a Jupe Eighty". The way the original Roland blurb read was that it was more like an XV-5080 sound engine with 128 voices and incorporating the latest SuperNatural technology and tossing in all of the SRX boards and then embellishing it with RSS. I don't think Roland will be putting the JP-80 out to pasture just yet, weak sales or no. And if they do? I will just consider myself one lucky geezer to have one!

I have already ordered the Integra because I don't already have ALL of the SRX boards (hey...not everyone can be piaknowguy!) and got tired of trying to find and order them online. I really need the Ethnic sounds in this thing too. I think it will be a perfect complement to the Jupiter and the V-Synths.

At any rate, we only have about one more month and we can all test it for ourselves and put any arguments to rest.

SoundworldA.D. wrote:

I myself will not read too much into what this Keyboard rag bloke said regarding the Integra-7 being "more than a Jupe Eighty"...

The INTEGRA-7 has exactly the same SuperNATURAL Acoustic and Synth single Tones, as the Jupiter-80 and some new SuperNATURAL Acoustic Tones, resp. new SN Acoustic Instrument Models, which Roland has developed since the release of the Jupiter-80, like the new Ukulele Model.

The INTEGRA-7 has the same SN engines as the JP-80 (SN-Synth Virtual Analog engine with 3 Partials and SN Acoustic Tone engine, using specific models for each acoustic instrument), but a different structure than the JP-80. The I-7 can produce 16 different single SN Tones on 16 different MIDI channels at the same time (restricted by 128 voices), while the JP-80 can produce 10 different single SN Tones at the same time on 4 different MIDI channels (2x4single Tones for Lower and Upper Liveset and 2x1 single Tone for Perc and Solo Part) and is restricted by 256 voices.

So therefore it's a logical thought to assume that the JP-80 is very probably capable of handling those newly developed SN Acoustic Instrument Models, resp SN Acoustic Tones, which are already inside the INTEGRA-7.

I further assume, that Roland was of course aware of the fact, that at the point of the JP-80's release, they still had some new SN Acoustic Models in development, which they planed to release in the future for the JP-80, but did meanwhile already incorporate in the INTEGRA-7.

I am therefore quite convinced, that they have built the JP-80 hardware with the capacity to receive some additional SN Acoustic Instrument Models. This could also be the reason for all the empty JP-80 sound category banks.

It seems to be quite clear, that Roland is currently developing even more new SN Acoustic Instrument Models, as this is their new innovation to compete in the market.
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Thanks for the comparisons on the respective sound engines Dany. Two SN engines blowing away at once along with two V-Synths. It just doesn't get better than that in the Soundworld, unless of course they're blowing along with 3 JD-990's, an XV-5080, a Fantom XR, a JV-2080, a JV-1080, an SC-88 and a D-70!

Whatever else Roland decides to release for these beauties (besides the recently anounced Legacy) will be icing on the cake for me.

Rock on!

kokocalamar wrote:

Mojkarma is makina a lot of assumptions regarding JP-80 sales, probably based on guesses. (Unless he has access to priviliged corporation information, which I doubt.)

I don't have any inside information of course. I'm not connected to Roland in any way. I make my guesses based on how Roland behaved in the past and what they do with the jupiter 80.
I'm looking at the sales rank (for keyboards) on thomman.de, one of the biggest european music shops and see the jp80 bouncing between rank 80 and 100. That is in Germany which has the strongest economy in Europe! That speaks volumes. Then I see that Roland UK gives you an ipad2 with the jupiter or even that new expensive stand with all foot switches. They obviously do everything to make the sales better. Verdict: it doesn't sell well. Otherwise, Roland UK would never offer such expensive goodies with it. If something sells well, you don't give such expensive add on's for "nothing". I can't remember that any other company gave you such expensive gifts for buying their keyboard. And as a last thing, for some strange reason Roland made quite significant changes in the jp80 OS with the ability to load/save separate items and with the new effect routing. That's something Roland never did for any of their keyboard before. They completely neglected their customers in that regard and never listened to user wishes. People asked for a separate load/save function since the first Fantom and until the current one. That's 4 generations and 12 years and Roland didn't move one finger to do something. That would be another signal for me that they try everything to make the sales better than they actually are.
But all that is not really important and I'm just speculating.

Fact is that we will never see new SN acoustic models in the jp-80.
Sorry Dani, but you shouldn't hope. I don't know that for sure but I see some serious technical limitations which would make such an upgrade impossible, but I already talked about it. They can deliver new sounds as patches but I hardly believe that there is room (memory) inside of the jp80 for those new models. Look at the Integra. Even there those new models are not part of the "rom". Instead, you have to load them.

mojkarma wrote:

Fact is that we will never see new SN acoustic models in the jp-80.

You've been wrong about everything else but even a broken clock tells the correct time twice a day.

"Fact is..." LOL

Pleas allow me to repost the following post from the "New Jupiter Legacy Collection" thread, as it suits also this thread.

My response reflects somewhat the consequences of Roland's "strategy", which really has the potential to further INTEGRA-7 sales at the expense of JP-80 sales....unless Roland would offer an update for the JP-80 to keep it competitive with some of the INTEGRA-7 specifications.

You can have TWO INTEGRA-7 modules for the price of ONE Jpuiter-80, offering you the same amount of voices and all the new I-7 "goodies" on top of it...and if you have an iPad and a good MIDI controller keyboard, you will experience almost the same accessibility and programmability, as with the JP-80!

Dany wrote:

kokocalamar wrote:

...But yes, programming the JP-80 as it is now is a joy!

BTW, I just learned today that the Integra-7 Supernatural Synthesizer holds an additional 87 waveforms, compared with the JP-80...

The real magic of the JP-80 is indeed its extreme accessibility and programmability, which is unrivaled...

It's interesting to hear that the INTEGRA-7 (compared to JP-80) not only contains some additional new SN Acoustic Sounds (resp. SN Instrument Models) and of course the SN-Drums (V-Drums) and 12 SRX-Boards, but also delivers 87 NEW and additional PCM waveforms in the OSC section of the SN VA-Synth engine! Where did you get this info from, as the I-7 manual hasn't been published so far?

Really, I begin to think about selling one of my two JP-80 and purchasing two INTEGRA-7 moduls instead...

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