Jupiter 80 questions (Nord Stage 2 / Kronos)

12 Jul 2011, 09:53

Hi,

I am really fan of JP 80 hardware and software interface, it seems powerfull & easy, efficient for preparing and doing live performances, unique on the market.

I understand that it is possible to layer 3 oscilliators by tone and 10 tones per note (4 tones for lower and upper part, 1 for percussion part, 1 for solo part) and that a SuperNatural instrument counts for one tone.
I have read the "parameter guide" and found very few parameters for supernatural instruments.
I understand "tone blender" that can assign many parameters to controllers.
I understand that you can easily split and layer the tones over the keyboard with progressive zones.

All that and many other things are really GREAT. Simple, efficient, powerfull.

But why so few sounds to play with ?

- 342 PCM
- 117 supernatural instruments (1/3 of them is only APS version of other instruments)
- virtual analog synthesis

Did I miss something ?

I understand JP80 is a live machine, but we should be allowed to get nearly any sound we want on it for that price 2990 € !

It is the case for a Kronos (but the interface is ... looks crazy fuzzy to me)
It is the case for the Nord Stage 2 (but I would not use the organ part and the Synth part has only 2 VA/PCM oscillisators - using panel A and B - and sounds a bit "light").

1900 € would be a decent price, its a nice machine but its closed / too limited for the actual price IMO.

Re: Jupiter 80 lacks sounds for its price ?

12 Jul 2011, 10:24

I understand JP80 is a live machine, but we should be allowed to get nearly any sound we want on it for that price 2990 € !

Exactly what sound do you think you don't get?
Having PCM waves, SuperNatural and VA synth engine, beeing able to combine all that and create your own sounds and you still think you don't get enough sounds? Sorry, but yes, you're missing something...

Re: Jupiter 80 lacks sounds for its price ?

12 Jul 2011, 10:59

First, speculating how much a keyboard should cost is simply a time waste.
Second, the number of pcm waveforms doesn't matter really. 300 or 1300, there will always be situations where you need a sound which you can't create by the internal waveforms. That's why people usually count on the sampler which is not part of the jp80 design.
The JP80 is a closed system. You get what you get. You can create a lot of different sounds, but you wont be able to create a sound, especially in the acoustic area, if the waveform is not in the memory.

Re: Jupiter 80 lacks sounds for its price ?

13 Jul 2011, 21:41

How many sounds can you get from a Steinway? How many synth sounds are memorable in music history?

I'd rather have some truly good sounds than 4,000 forgettable sounds from a synth.

Re: Jupiter 80 lacks sounds for its price ?

14 Jul 2011, 10:38

Chrisk-K wrote:
How many sounds can you get from a Steinway?

It may be not so obvious to you, but we are talking about the JP80. Not Steinway. There is a small difference between them.

Chrisk-K wrote:
How many synth sounds are memorable in music history?

How many musicians are memorable in music history? Should 99,9% of us stop making music now?

Chrisk-K wrote:
I'd rather have some truly good sounds than 4,000 forgettable sounds from a synth.

Sometimes your job is to play a part in the song with a certain sound, be it in the studio or stage. Nobody cares about what you consider as a good sound. If you are asked to play a solo with a synth lead and you don't deliver because you want to convince them to play it with a "memorable", "good" steinway sound, you may be out of the studio/band faster than you get in.

Re: Jupiter 80 lacks sounds for its price ?

14 Jul 2011, 12:01

It's a synthesizer in the purest sense. How you can figure it lacks sounds is beyond me unless you've spent considerable time with the board? I agree debating price is a waste of time as is debating over features that just don't exist in the current crop of boards.

Re: Jupiter 80 lacks sounds for its price ?

15 Jul 2011, 07:23

Thank you all for your remarks and advices. Here are some news.

I had the chance to do a "full time non stop" test with a Kronos at home, went thru all synth engines, all progs, all combis, programmed a few combies with layers, splits, effects & controls.
It's huge.
I did not look anything else on it (sampling, the sequencer, karma, ...).

Kronos sounded to my hear like a 9 VST computer and has the ergonomy (user interface) of it.
Just imagine a computer software with the same screen design, put on a small touch screnn, no mouse ... you have Kronos.

Try & Hear it yourself ...

I gave it back and ordered a Jupiter 80 today !
I won't get sampler, it will be "closed", but I'll get a very good sounding powerfull live synthesizer that I can really use.

I spent time on a Nord Stage 2 as well, maybe I wont get all the e.piano sounds on the jupiter ... but I'll get much more synth (only one osc per panel on a NS2).

Re: Jupiter 80 lacks sounds for its price ?

15 Jul 2011, 10:03

I don't get this. Why do you call it "closed"? Except for sampling the Kronos is as "closed" as anyother workstation or keyboard. Can you add your "own" synth engines to it? no. You're stucked with the 9 engines.
Isn't the Kronos SGX-1 Premium a piano sound engine? Can you do guitar sounds with it? No, you're stucked with pianos. Is it powerfull? Yes, but that's not the point.
So you have 9 different sound engines on the Kronos, each one dedicated to a type of sounds. On the Jupiter you've got "all" types of sounds generated by a "mix" of SuperNatural, PCM and/or VA synth types in the same engine.
It just works in a diferent way.

Jupiter 80 questions (Nord Stage 2 / Kronos)

15 Jul 2011, 10:14

Hi

@V-CeeOh , mojkarma explained that & I agree :

mojkarma wrote:
First, speculating how much a keyboard should cost is simply a time waste.
Second, the number of pcm waveforms doesn't matter really. 300 or 1300, there will always be situations where you need a sound which you can't create by the internal waveforms. That's why people usually count on the sampler which is not part of the jp80 design.
The JP80 is a closed system. You get what you get. You can create a lot of different sounds, but you wont be able to create a sound, especially in the acoustic area, if the waveform is not in the memory.

With kronos you can put your own sampled instrument into HD1 synth engine.
It takes exs format for instance.
With Nord Stage 2 you can edit (with Nord Sample Editor) your own PCM instrument and upload it into the board.

But IMO that is really not important if I cant use it (kronos) or if it sounds too light to me (only 2 osc NS2 synth part). I will hear that in real.

My worry was especially on e-pianos, but JP80 seems to have a good tweakable (hammer noise an so on ...) e piano module :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WTCqZTij4do
and
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WTCqZTij4do

I am confident about the clavs too now ...
and very confident on synth part , this one is a killer demo IMO :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7tAq1QLRlw

We will see that in real and I will put some files on the net.

I modify my topic title "Jupiter 80 lacks sounds for its price" because I cant say that I did not tried it.
Can you modify the first post with "Jupiter 80 questions (Nord Stage 2 / Kronos)" because I do not have the right, please ?

Last edited by audioird on 15 Jul 2011, 10:20, edited 1 time in total.

Re: Jupiter 80 lacks sounds for its price ?

15 Jul 2011, 10:20

IMO Kronos offers more features within the EP & CX3 engines things like Fx for the epianos and OD in the CX3 section, more flexibility in FX routing including series FX and basics like single patch backup. Love to play with delay, phasers & wah on the EP but struggle with how these effects will be applied on the JP. Would love to see these issues addressed in a future OS. In the meantime ill continue to use my outboard FX.

My Kronos 88 was on order for six months when I switched to the Jupiter. Korg offers a compelling board but with tiny display trying to display groups of parameters intended for a larger LCD. Seeming cheap build quality with power supply fan. Roland & Yamaha flagship stuff is always built like a tank. I think Roland did a great job with user interface and easy to read display. Closed is not the word i would use to describe the JP. The demos sound great impressive in fact probably the best I've heard. Very fresh.

Re: Jupiter 80 lacks sounds for its price ?

15 Jul 2011, 10:22

Nice to share your experience !

Kronos display and user interface was really a pain for me.

Re: Jupiter 80 questions (Nord Stage 2 / Kronos)

15 Jul 2011, 11:37

With kronos you can put your own sampled instrument into HD1 synth engine.

That's just what I said:

Except for sampling the Kronos is as "closed" as anyother workstation or keyboard

Can you modify the first post with "Jupiter 80 questions (Nord Stage 2 / Kronos)" because I do not have the right, please ?

Done! :-)

Re: Jupiter 80 questions (Nord Stage 2 / Kronos)

15 Jul 2011, 17:23

The Kronos's problem is that Korg basically implanted the OASYS UI to a smaller 8" screen. The font on the Kronos screen is as small as numbers on a penny. It was very uncomfortable reading the screen. Plus, because of the small screen, it was oftentimes a challenge to touch what I intended to touch.

The JP-80's UI looks excellent. Everything on the screen looks crystal clear.

Re: Jupiter 80 questions (Nord Stage 2 / Kronos)

15 Jul 2011, 21:32

Chrisk-K wrote:
…The font on the Kronos screen is as small as numbers on a penny…

There are numbers on a penny?

Oh my, I need reading glasses!

Re: Jupiter 80 questions (Nord Stage 2 / Kronos)

17 Jul 2011, 08:06

Hi,

End of search for me ...

Thank you guys for pointing out some ideas I had to check.
Also, having a good local dealer is important. I could not make a choice without.
My shop is located in Nantes (France), named "michenaud.com", they really gave me the time to try the keyboards in good conditions, and after I tried Nord Stage 2 and Korg Kronos, I realized the best choice for me is Jupiter 80, and ordered one !
I also opened this place : www.jupiter80.fr

Can't wait to have it (I'll know when it arrives on tuesday).

cheers ;)