QUESTION FOR HIP HOP LOVERS

Those guys are simply born with talent... Can't teach what they do, but you can learn the procedures... I graduated from Full Sail in Florida & besides the countless hours of learning/operating gear, music history, & business, I didn't really learn to produce... This came from within, it helps to have rhythm & versatile development skills, you know what I'm sayin... Everyone cannot do it bro...

The Savior of Darkness

Aren't we a week early for April Fools? This is a joke, right? Born with talent.....for what?

Well be that as it may, taking music theory to produce hip hop would be like studying english literature to write instructions for laundry detergent.

Easy 2tim316, don't knock any form of artist. Music snobbery will get you nowhere. I personally don't like country & western but that doesn't mean its crap does it?

I must agree DogZilla. I'm certainly not a hip hop fan, or a country fan, but music, for most people, is about how it makes them feel. I personally like new age and classical stuff. I'm sure there are many out there that don't though.

One of the major differences in genres is where the focus is. From my own observations I found the different main-stream genre focuses are:

Classical - form and consistency.
New Age - mixture of form and unconventional instrumentation.
Country - form, melody, and lyrics relating to a specific population.
Hip Hop - rhythmic lyrics relating to a specific population with little emphasis on melody.
Rock - form, melody, and lyrics relating to a specific population.

I think most other Western music genres fall under one of those focuses. Many non-Western genres probably do as well to some extent.

Let's be realistic though. Many hip hop artists didn't get where they are because of talent but more out of pure determination combined with a bit of knowing the right people and making wise career decisions.

Hip hop music, along with "pop" music, because they are attractive to such a large population, are genres that make the recording studios a lot of money. The recording studios are thus the ones choosing who becomes famous based not on their talent but more on their image and marketability. Full-time paid musicians (especially for pop music) write the music, the well known performers simply do that, perform, with limited influence on the music.

This is not as much true of hip hop as with pop, but the record labels certainly have a lot more say in who "gets paid" than most consumers are led to believe. The hip hop artists' true talent is reflected in their lyrical abilities, and only rarely in their musical talent (at least if we are referring to "music" as melody and rhythm). Many are "one hit wonders" so to speak.

Well, that's enough of my Music Sociology lesson I guess, ha.

Hi nsheldon

Music becomes an art form when feeling is injected in to a piece of work. Hip Hop actually contains more raw feeling than you actually give it credit for, and not just through the lyrics but through the execution of the lyrics in conjunction with the beats and the melody.

I've just checked out your site by the way & really like your piano stuff-you're a true artist -even though your website looks like teletext - sorry

"I personally don't like country & western but that doesn't mean its crap does it?"

Actually it does.

Loz
The artist formally know as Lawrence

Learning music theory is just as important to hiphop as any other genre of music. It gives you a foundation of sorts. Hard to believe Tim's comment toward hiphop being that it frequently stays at the top of the charts weekly and that with it's success in the recent decade more and more genres infuse some form of hip or hop in their music to provide crossover appeal. Hiphop is hot for a reason. I could be wrong, but i'm willing to wager that if not for the popularity of rap/rnb in recent years Roland, Korg, Akai and the likes would be hard pressed to need to develop units like the FS and Tritons. Maybe it's just the region i live in but i don't think i've ever gone into a music store and heard someone sitting at a Triton playing classical or country tunes. I always tend to hear some organs or pianos or something rnb-ish. Go figure.

Now, with all that said I think the questions you're asking about other producers would be hard for anyone of us to answer. I did read interviews with artist like the Neptunes and others where they claim to have gone to school previously. Premo? Maybe. Hard to know. Never read anything in reference to that. Pete Rock wants to or has opened a school in New York to help fledgling hiphop/rnb producers craft their skillz. Showing them how to use and freak pieces of gear like the MPC, SP1200, ASR's, turntables, etc...

I do believe a person is born with rhythm and an ear for musicality. It would need to be developed in most cases, which is how i believe the artist you mentioned are so good at their form of music. In hiphop though you'll find a lot of successful artist that start out as performers learn to produce and whatnot. Hands on experience with hours in the lab goes farther than hours at a desk in a class. You get better by listening. Great by doing.

Just my 15 cents.

Mic Pacino

HAHAHAHA!!!!

Comedy timing does exist in text

Thanks Loz for making me nearly wet myself.

))

Actually, 2T's reference is relevant but misapplied. Studying English Literature is highly relevant to writing instructions for laundry detergent. Understanding the flow and development of any language (Spoken Word, Math, Music) in a historical and theoretical context makes anyone better able to deal with creative flow, be it ad copy, theatrical dialogue, computations on the nature of the universe or ANY genre of music. Those who dismiss styles and genres out of hand risk the same treatment of their own views. It is fundamental to our craft and our art that we listen and learn with open minds to every style and every nuance. If we don't, we shortchange ourselves.

Now that I've spewed that hyperbole.........yes, a knowledge of and foundation in music theory can help every genre. Every path is different, but fundamentals still form the foundation of every discipline. Name the endeavor, and you can list a variety of attributes that successful individuals bring to the party. Knack, talent, "a feel for it", a "natural"........these attributes apply to artists, doctors, gardeners, designers, chefs, athletes, teachers, parents..................but if you have any of that magic to bring to the mix, and then have the good fortune to nurture yourself, or be nurtured by an external mentor, then ahh...........all the better, eh?

So most successful people, I believe, took a class on life, plus adopted a steady focus on their goal, then through a lifetime of accretion (and I believe that to be a combination of talent and education), carried out their promise.

Then, of course, they died

lol

Mic Pacino

Horsefeathers! (We do have politest [is that a word?] forum on the internet after all!)

I watched that Making the Band II show on MTV. What they are doing has nothing to do with any type of formal musical training. It would be a total waste of time. I'm not putting down that form of self-expression and commercial entertainment - I'm just saying that you'd be wasting your time studying music to get better at it, since it has little or nothing to do with music.

You'd be much better off studying marketing, demographics, accounting, video production, music industry, Pro Tools, etc... The "music" part is maybe 3-5% of the total package. And that can easily be done on a Triton or similar. Again, refer to Making The Band II. They did not spend a lot of time doing the "music".

Yes, politest is the inflected form of the adjective.